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Old 01-11-2019, 04:20 PM   #21
eldur00
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You guys are kind of missing the point. Cal is not being seated because of injury. That I could deal with. They have ZERO recognition of the streak that was already started when the game began (7 years into it). So they are resting him by choice. That is my issue. That the game is ending the streak for no good reason other than it treats him as just a regular player

Well that's the thing, and the beauty of the game, is that the AI doesn't know names, just numbers.


Besides, somebody already made the suggestion. I believe (I don't play that way so can't confirm 100%) that you can start an historical league using all the transactions and lineups as they were in real life. If you want Cal's streak, you'll need to do that. Otherwise it won't matter if you start in the first or 7th year of his streak, the moment you press the Play button, it becomes a fictional universe.
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Old 01-11-2019, 04:41 PM   #22
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the moment you press the Play button, it becomes a fictional universe.
Right, it is a replay, not a recreation. OOTP wouldn't be much fun if it just recreated everything that already happened.
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Old 01-11-2019, 06:39 PM   #23
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In OOTP the nearly impossible things that occurred real life will be replaced by nearly impossible things that didn't.
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Old 01-11-2019, 06:42 PM   #24
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Just curious, do players ever get so tired in OOTP that the game forces you to rest them? Been so long since I've managed or been in control of a team, I haven't a clue. For example, if I was in control of Ripken, could I simply play him every game regardless of his being tired, or would the game eventually force me to sit him?


I agree with Birdwatcher.
yeah, if they get to 0-3% or 0-2? near 0, obviously... catchers will not play every game even if you put their backups to never. you'll see them forced out of lineup at some point due to exhaustion.

heck, the new way catchers worked as of 18, you can't even sim and play them to exhaustion, but it worked that way before. you can probably insert them into lineup by hand and they would play? have to test that last part out.

brad k -- that's inevitable. the ultra rare things won't repeat often from RL->Sim of same years. the key is that the ultra rare things occur at roughly the same rate, relatively speaking for each context.

the major things that 'shouldn't' happen in the statistical realm can be avoided with good league total modifiers and other various settings. if you want to get into on-field strategy, that'd be a seperate conversation. no matter what it inevitably delves into the realm of arbitrary.

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Old 01-11-2019, 06:51 PM   #25
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brad k -- that's inevitable. the ultra rare things won't repeat often from RL->Sim of same years. the key is that the ultra rare things occur at roughly the same rate, relatively speaking for each context.
I'm perfectly OK with that.
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Old 01-11-2019, 06:53 PM   #26
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I bet people can give some examples of things as nearly impossible as the Ripken streak that happened in their games.
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Old 01-11-2019, 08:00 PM   #27
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A little off topic, but I have always wondered if when you are managing games does it help keep players more rested if you remove them in the 5th/6th inning? IRL, if you are up 14-2 and remove your catcher in the 5th, he is obviously less likely to need a day off in the next few days than if he caught all 9 innings. Does OOTP take this into account?
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Old 01-11-2019, 08:08 PM   #28
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Mind you I play most of my OOTP in 17, with players having 5 or 10 year long careers, 5 round drafts, and thus injuries on low (or extremely low) and fatigue on low. But because of the high turnover of players and occasional lack of backups at a spot I have some players play all 162 in the field. Had a 3B that did it for 3 or 4 seasons in a row.
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Old 01-12-2019, 10:44 AM   #29
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You guys are kind of missing the point. Cal is not being seated because of injury. That I could deal with. They have ZERO recognition of the streak that was already started when the game began (7 years into it). So they are resting him by choice. That is my issue. That the game is ending the streak for no good reason other than it treats him as just a regular player
Like I said before, OOTP is not built to replicate history. If you want to watch a replay of what happened in real life, you've got a better chance with a game like Strat-O-Matic.

That said, you can use real lineups and turn off injuries. That should force Ripken to continue his streak. Or you can take control of the Orioles and set the lineups yourself.
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Old 01-12-2019, 11:58 AM   #30
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yeah, if they get to 0-3% or 0-2? near 0, obviously... catchers will not play every game even if you put their backups to never. you'll see them forced out of lineup at some point due to exhaustion.

heck, the new way catchers worked as of 18, you can't even sim and play them to exhaustion, but it worked that way before. you can probably insert them into lineup by hand and they would play? have to test that last part out.

brad k -- that's inevitable. the ultra rare things won't repeat often from RL->Sim of same years. the key is that the ultra rare things occur at roughly the same rate, relatively speaking for each context.

the major things that 'shouldn't' happen in the statistical realm can be avoided with good league total modifiers and other various settings. if you want to get into on-field strategy, that'd be a seperate conversation. no matter what it inevitably delves into the realm of arbitrary.

About the catcher, yes, you can force play him every game. I had a fictional league where I was Managing only so at the mercy of my GM.


My catcher was my only left bat in the lineup, so I experimented. I made him play every game for 3 months. He was at 0% energy. Then it did what I mentioned in a previous post. (I play out all my games). At the lineup preview screen, my spot for catcher would be blank every single game, I would need to manually put him in there.


Fun fact : After 3 months of playing every day, I started to give him rest days. His energy never went up above 0%, even after 4 or 5 straight days off. I figured I had either broken up the system, or there was a "negative" hidden value I needed to reach for energy to start coming back up.


I didn't test past that part though.
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Old 01-12-2019, 12:17 PM   #31
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Fun fact : After 3 months of playing every day, I started to give him rest days. His energy never went up above 0%, even after 4 or 5 straight days off. I figured I had either broken up the system, or there was a "negative" hidden value I needed to reach for energy to start coming back up.


I didn't test past that part though.
This is interesting. If there's a negative value hidden somewhere, I'm kind of surprised there isn't a trigger in the game that would give a player like this an injury and call it "Exhaustion."
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Old 01-12-2019, 02:22 PM   #32
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This is interesting. If there's a negative value hidden somewhere, I'm kind of surprised there isn't a trigger in the game that would give a player like this an injury and call it "Exhaustion."

Like I said I didn't experiment with it much past that, so my sample size is small. All I know is that after 4 or 5 days of rest, his energy was still at 0 and using him at a "normal" level after never made him recover any energy at all either. He was Durable for injury frequency, and basically played an entire season without any energy, or getting injured.


Might be interesting to do the same thing but with a position player and see if energy level can be "locked" at 0 as well.
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Old 01-12-2019, 02:49 PM   #33
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Just like throwing back to back no-hitters or a achieving a 56-game hitting streak, it's not statistically impossible. Just highly improbable.
It's not very helpful to put consecutive-game streaks like Ripken's and Gehrig's on a statistical continuum, as if they arose purely by chance. They didn't. In fact, it's often overlooked just how artificial those streaks were.

At the time, both Gehrig and Ripken were aware of their streaks, and sought to do everything possible to prolong them. In Gehrig's case, that sometimes involved him batting lead-off and then exiting the game as soon as he recorded a plate appearance, just so he could keep the streak alive. In both Gehrig's and Ripken's cases, there were probably times when it would have been better for the team to bench them.

So it's probably more accurate to say that those streaks were, in fact, statistically impossible. That's because they didn't arise by chance. On the other hand, they do happen, and players, managers, and fans all recognize their significance. If OOTP can't or won't factor in the importance of maintaining a long streak, then that's probably an area in which the game could be improved.
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Old 01-12-2019, 04:59 PM   #34
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Like I said I didn't experiment with it much past that, so my sample size is small. All I know is that after 4 or 5 days of rest, his energy was still at 0 and using him at a "normal" level after never made him recover any energy at all either. He was Durable for injury frequency, and basically played an entire season without any energy, or getting injured.


Might be interesting to do the same thing but with a position player and see if energy level can be "locked" at 0 as well.
It might take significantly longer and may not even be possible with a position other than catcher, since catchers (rightly so) fatigue faster than players out on the diamond. But you're right, it would be an interesting experiment to test.
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:13 PM   #35
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you can get reasonably close if the player is a 1B, 3B OR DH. Have found them to be the best at challenging that record. My best is roughly 1200 games in a row. cannot be exact on that since game doesn't keep track of it.
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Old 01-13-2019, 02:59 AM   #36
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It's not very helpful to put consecutive-game streaks like Ripken's and Gehrig's on a statistical continuum, as if they arose purely by chance. They didn't. In fact, it's often overlooked just how artificial those streaks were.

At the time, both Gehrig and Ripken were aware of their streaks, and sought to do everything possible to prolong them. In Gehrig's case, that sometimes involved him batting lead-off and then exiting the game as soon as he recorded a plate appearance, just so he could keep the streak alive. In both Gehrig's and Ripken's cases, there were probably times when it would have been better for the team to bench them.

So it's probably more accurate to say that those streaks were, in fact, statistically impossible. That's because they didn't arise by chance. On the other hand, they do happen, and players, managers, and fans all recognize their significance. If OOTP can't or won't factor in the importance of maintaining a long streak, then that's probably an area in which the game could be improved.
This is exactly right. It was a conscious decision by both team and player to keep the streak alive. Completing ignoring that is not more fun, its more generic and unrealistic.Its more "video game" and less simulation.

I would guess a lot of people play historical to replay history and see "what if". What if Cal gets hurt 10 years in and it ends his streak? I'm ok with that. What if I start in 83 and its not really a thing? Ok. But 7 years in its absolutely a thing that grew in importance every year. Its something the game can improve on. Much like players like Cal, Gwynn, Puckett, Brett, etc that played with the same team their whole career and almost never do in the game.

Using the argument that the game doesnt see names is a turn off, not a plus. These players arent (or shouldn't be) generic statistical beings. Otherwise why have personalities and storylines? Why have loyalty ratings and greed etc? I'm not asking the game to replicate every players stats and every teams transactions. I'm asking it to recognize an accomplishment. The same thing as if you simmed 20 seasons in and a guy goes 5 years without missing a game. HEY! Will this guy challenge Gehrig or Ripken? That would be pretty cool! And then it only ends after an injury not because hey you need a rest like every other player. That's so random and generic. The game can track a hitting streak and is aware of DiMaggio, why not this?

BTW, the idea of using historical lineups is not even remotely a solution. That's for someone that wants to play out the exact same seasons over and see the different result. I want an alternate universe. I just want one where the managers and player show some awareness of such a streak just like any other record in the game.

Last edited by majesty95; 01-13-2019 at 03:01 AM.
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Old 01-13-2019, 04:11 PM   #37
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There have been lots (and lots) of accomplishments and famous mistakes made in baseball over it's history. There are lots of debates that could be had over which ones (if any) deserve special attention. I'm fine with having my own league create it's own unique set without forcing it to look like actual real like baseball. Even if I chose to play in an historical mode, I'd be fine with it all not being identical. I don't expect a simulator to play like a documentary.

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Old 01-14-2019, 02:14 AM   #38
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Again. I’m not expecting it to replicate real life. I’m expecting Cal to act like Cal was when I started my dynasty. If I start in 1980 and it never becomes a thing, cool. But if I start 7 years in when it was already a thing, it shouldn’t end because a manager is clueless to it and sits him. And he shouldn’t be clueless to it either. I really befuddle that is such a hard concept to grasp lol.
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Old 01-14-2019, 10:15 AM   #39
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Again. I’m not expecting it to replicate real life. I’m expecting Cal to act like Cal was when I started my dynasty.
You're contradicting yourself in back-to-back sentences. You can either have the game not replicate real life or you can the Cal Ripken streak preserved. The two are not synonymous.

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I really befuddle that is such a hard concept to grasp lol.
Nobody is having a hard time grasping what you're asking for. We're trying to explain to you why what you want is not possible with OOTP. The very moment you start a historical game and change one little thing -- even the most insignificant thing you can think of, like giving a middle reliever a pitch count limit -- the game becomes essentially a fictional universe. Historical players will perform similar and often close to real life, but nothing will be replicated. No streaks, no records, no championships, nothing. It's all left to play out in front of your eyes.

OOTP is not meant to preserve history.
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Old 01-14-2019, 10:25 AM   #40
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Nobody is having a hard time grasping what you're asking for.
Hmmm, I don't think that's entirely true.

What majesty95 is saying is that the game should recognize consecutive-game streaks and try to preserve them if possible. It doesn't really matter if the player who has the streak is Cal Ripken or Bill Pipkin or whatever, it's that OOTP should take into account that players and managers alike tend to want to preserve long consecutive-game streaks. This isn't about replicating history, it's about reflecting the way that the game is actually played.
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