Beta Hotfix Patch 70 (Version 19.8.70)!

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Orioles1966

I have been suggesting for years that most people should hold off on updating too see if there is a problem or too and maybe this time people will start waiting.

I did one update so far this year and couldn't play the game as I had played in the past thus I won't do update's unless the game is completely unplayable.

So what happens if everybody waits? There will never be enough testers to cover the endless number of possible system configurations out there. If everybody waits how do both the large and small issues become found, reported, and fixed?

Then of course there are also Steam users getting auto-updates.

For us that buy the game direct from OOTP the simplest solution is to never get rid of your last working install file. Before d'loading the newest patch either rename it or move it to another folder so it isn't overwritten.

Make a backup or copy of your current game. You do this because once you play and save your game in the new version chances are you won't be able to load it into an old version. And of course it is something you should already be doing on a regular basis anyway.

If a patch breaks your game you can then uninstall, and reinstall your last working version. Put your backup into the saved game folder and continue on.

Takes about 2 seconds to rename your old install file to "OOTP_old" or whatever you choose before d'loading the new one. You're already, or should be, making backups so that adds no time. Someone will say "I shouldn't have to do that", well ok then don't. Lose your game and complain instead of investing all of the time renaming a file takes.

My game, like everybody else here, is important to me. Hell, I back it up before I make minor changes like adding new logos. Why wouldn't I protect my game before patching?

[David Watts]

When I select start game from the lineup/preview screen, I'm randomly getting a spinning blue cursor that spins for 5 or 6 seconds, then nothing happens. The cursor stops spinning, but instead of going to the game, it remains on the lineup screen. I then have to hit start game again and the game screen appears. Doesn't happen all the time, just randomly.

[battists]

I can always empathize with both sides of this discussion. On the one hand, I totally get people wishing they could buy a bug free product. I get people wishing software companies wouldn’t release software until it was bug free. It’s very frustrating to buy a product and not have it work as you want it to.

But as someone who has worked in software and business for 30 years, a piece of software without bugs is just a pipe dream.

Computers are complex.
Hardware is complex.
Network connectivity is complex.
Operating systems are complex.
Software is complex.
Games are getting larger and larger in scope.

You put all of these things together and you start to realize the overall complexity involved. Writing a game probably involves 10, 20, 50 other pieces of software just to do the development work, all of which are made by different companies.

There’s some simple math you can do to quickly understand that “testing everything” is infeasible.

For example, let’s say a game has 5 configuration options. Ok, so now we have 5 test cases to tackle. Not so bad. But we want the game to run on windows, Mac, and Linux. So, we have to multiply that by three, so 15 test cases. But wait, there are multiple versions of each of those. So let’s say we want to test the most current and previous versions. Now we have 30 test cases.

But wait, there are different types of processors out there that could impact things. So we want to test on intel and AMD. Double that to 60 test cases. But wait, graphics cards make a difference. There’s probably 10 commonly used ones. 600 test cases. But wait, graphics cards have different versions. That’s 1200 test cases. But wait, while we were doing all of this development and testing, a new version of something came out. That’s another 800 test cases or something.

So 2000 test cases, each of which takes time to prepare, document, and execute. And I’m being conservative about graphics cards, software versions, etc.

That’s for five configuration options. A game like OOTP has THOUSANDS of different configuration permutations. If I have one option with 3 choices and another with 4 choices, that’s not 7 test cases. It’s 4 x 3 or 12 cases. Things multiply rapidly.

So mathematically speaking, to test every possible combination of software, hardware, and configuration in OOTP, it would likely take multiple man years with several dedicated resources. And without a HUGE team you would never be able to catch up with all of the new software releases etc.

It’s a business’ job to make money. Small software developers don’t make a lot of money. Markus and crew have been doing this for 20 years with <10 people, supporting multiple products. And trust me, they aren’t sitting over there in mansions. I’ve visited them.

If OOTP could only release one product every five years because they wanted to make it more bug free, well, then you just wouldn’t have an OOTP or any small developers.

All you can do as a small developer is to take a risk-based approach to testing an do your best with your limited resources and help from volunteers. The same goes for huge development shops as well. Even those giant developers have to use a risk-based approach.

When a critical bug comes up post-release it’s even harder, because now you have urgency to get a fix out there. You only have time for a fraction of the testing you’d like to do. You’re damned if you’re slow to patch, and damned if your patch doesn’t work for everyone.

This is a long rant, but hopefully it helps some people understand why software is released with bugs.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Juggernt]

This patch wiped out my latest saved game. I was in spring training. Fortunately, I had backed up before the playoffs the previous year.

[Lawn Loaf]

Thanks for the well thought explanation.

I am sure the OOTP team is a top notch group, and I don't think they work on this project for the money. The way you explain makes sense.

I just won't download patches or updates because I don't want to deal with the hassles that could arise.

[mitchkenn]

Originally Posted by Sweed

For us that buy the game direct from OOTP the simplest solution is to never get rid of your last working install file. Before d'loading the newest patch either rename it or move it to another folder so it isn't overwritten.

Make a backup or copy of your current game. You do this because once you play and save your game in the new version chances are you won't be able to load it into an old version. And of course it is something you should already be doing on a regular basis anyway.

well said. exactly how i have been doing it.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by rink23

OK, new question.
It looks like my graphics card is probably outdated, so I need to decide what the next step is.
Update the graphics card or replace the six-year old computer entirely.
Also, I do have OOTP19 on my laptop and it is running smoother than Harrison Bader runs the bases.
What is the best/safest/simpleist way to get my lg file of my Cardinals dynasty from my desktop to my laptop.
I tried to put it on a thumbdrive the other night, and it was going to take 3-plus hours. I could not sit around and watch and at some point it corrupted out.
I play on Steam, but I don't believe it is transferable through the site/app or whatever it is.

Use 7zip to make a zip file then copy the single zip file to a usb drive. That will reduce the time significantly.

7zip is free and has a sterling reputation

https://www.7-zip.org/download.html

[Airdrop01]

Originally Posted by Lawn Loaf

I don't think they work on this project for the money. .

I hope they do this for the money. If they don't, then we are all screwed. I sure didn't do my job for giggles. And I certainly didn't strive for workplace exceptionalism for giggles.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Airdrop01

I hope they do this for the money. If they don't, then we are all screwed. I sure didn't do my job for giggles. And I certainly didn't strive for workplace exceptionalism for giggles.

I do too. No one should ever work for free.

[Lawn Loaf]

I hope they do it as a labor of love, for the independence, of course that takes money but the money isn't the endgame.
It's how I do it, work for myself for the independence, the money is just to maintain. The independence is priceless!

[mickey7]

Originally Posted by Lawn Loaf

I have never downloaded any of these updates or patches. Should not have to. The truth of the matter is this game should be good to go out of the box, or download, whatever.

My game runs fine, but I am missing all these latest patches and updates.
Give me a break, I come from the old school when you bought a game, it was complete and you got what you got. If the game was incomplete or buggy, you pitched it and vowed to never buy it again.

Now, ever since the ps3 and xbox 360, everyone just take its in the piehole and buys an incomplete game, then actually anticipates, and begs, for the update or patch for a game they paid full asking price for!

Call me a bitchy malcontent or whatnot, but you guys on here begging and asking for the next patch are the problem, and worse, enablers for all these developers to put out a half finished product.

What's even more amusing is after the patch craps your system, you are more than willing to waste valuable moments of your lives jumping on the hamster wheel of never ending and vague solutions to the problem that f'ed up your game; the problem is the developers released an unfinished product, a product none the less you paid for!

This post will not make me any friends I am sure, but if I am so full of it, If I am so bitter or uninformed, then please, enlighten me through a reasoned debate where I am wrong.

Well said !!!

[mickey7]

Originally Posted by Reggie

Just a thought...but if you don't like all the "flash and dash" you could always play a previous version that you liked.

Except I bought and paid for this to be a working game---it is NOT !!!

[NoOne]

if it frustrates you, you should not be an early adopter. if you get your rocks off by helping, then go ahead and do it. neither choice is better than the other.

------------------

of course they do it for the money... maybe they enjoy it too, since it's a home-owned business type thing. (a bit more than that, of course, but not EA -- are they still around?) that doesn't make it a bad thing, if they do it for the money... and it sure doesn't make it a good thing if they don't... god knows what kind of real motivations are occuring in contexts like that...at least it isn't a mystery... lol, e.g. go send your kid on a camping trip with some priests... alone in the woods... they aren't doing it for the money, either, lol.

debugging software is like a CPA auditing a company.. .it sucks. it's boring. it's guaranteed to frustrate you at some point. ==> not fun and tedious work. those are my feelings, so i avoid it. while i have opened and played a season or 3 in '19, i am still playing '18 full time. that will soon change. i've waited longer this year than in the past and i am much happier for it.

not about ootp, specifically:

at one time, they hired people for this. now, large private companies start crowdfunding pages and release it during the creation process, essentially, using those people as debuggers... not even talking about small companies, which are the only ones that can do that and not be nefarious for doing it -- i.e. almost out of neccessity and if you want the game you contribute (or a % does). the point is the cost burden has been shifted even further onto the customer -- willingly accepted and even persued by the customer in a willing way -- i.e. our fault (not specifically about ootp, but entire softare industry, in general)

you can tell by how games operate and run that they are made by the same group of software engineers (think the 4x games -- it's not even fun to buy them if you own 1 of the others, because it's no different except for a new facade).

they don't pay for startup costs, they don't pay debuggers, and they make that much more money at the top --> the last place that deserves more 99.9999% of the time. it's just a larger Profit Margin.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Lawn Loaf

I hope they do it as a labor of love, for the independence, of course that takes money but the money isn't the endgame.
It's how I do it, work for myself for the independence, the money is just to maintain. The independence is priceless!

I love what I do but I don't love it enough to work below market value or for free. We may disagree philosophically on the definition of freedom/independence. I freely choose to do what I do and will freely choose to stop doing it should I change my mind.

[Thundercrack]

Originally Posted by Airdrop01

I hope they do this for the money. If they don't, then we are all screwed. I sure didn't do my job for giggles. And I certainly didn't strive for workplace exceptionalism for giggles.

workplace exceptionalism. didnt know Dwight Schrute was a board member.

[waittilnextyear]

It's also important to not lose sight of the fact that this year's game has been rock stable for many of us ever since the earliest version came out in March.

Aside from some initial animation wonkiness, the trade block being used in an odd manner, and most recently the scouting graphs getting bugged--I can hardly think of anything that's even been irritating, let alone a game breaker. Been playing the absolute heck out of this game for 5 months now.

[Lawn Loaf]

What prevents the developers from putting all these updates into the next version of the game?
Their resources are finite as it is, how is putting them into an endless stream of updates for the current version as opposed to putting the same amount of resources developing and testing these updates to make sure they work and just putting them into the next version any better or more efficient?
Is it because they can get the consumer to do the troubleshooting AFTER they have already paid for the game?
There are some many people pining for updates to the current version and when they don't work, end up mad or in a time wasting hamster wheel of troubleshooting.

[Lawn Loaf]

Originally Posted by Thundercrack

workplace exceptionalism. didnt know Dwight Schrute was a board member.

Priceless!

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Lawn Loaf

What prevents the developers from putting all these updates into the next version of the game?
Their resources are finite as it is, how is putting them into an endless stream of updates for the current version as opposed to putting the same amount of resources developing and testing these updates to make sure they work and just putting them into the next version any better or more efficient?
Is it because they can get the consumer to do the troubleshooting AFTER they have already paid for the game?
There are some many people pining for updates to the current version and when they don't work, end up mad or in a time wasting hamster wheel of troubleshooting.

No, its because users request them and then expect them to be added because most of them are "easy" and should be in the game. OOTP has used this model since I purchased my first game in 2002 and it is usually very much appreciated by the masses and rarely requires a fix. You can disagree with the model of course but as a user, for 16 years, I can tell you it is popular, expected, and one of the things that has made OOTP successful. It is not to test something for "free" or to get a head start on next year's version.

This latest patch cycle is not typical and, I would say, easily the biggest mess I've seen in all of these years. Something went wrong, we all make mistakes and they are working their tails off trying to fix it asap. It's frustrating for many users and I would think doubly so for them. Somebody will probably post "they broke it they should fix it", "it's there job, they're being paid so tough luck if they feel frustrated" etc. and while that is all true they are doing just that IE working hard to fix it.

As far as this patch I'm not sure what "all these updates" are that would make me think they went too far but, the patch list seems to have been lost with all of the editing to the original threads as they post new links to hot fixes.
The only two "big" things I recall is the shop player improvement and that's just a sort feature that I can't imagine interacts with a lineup screen in game or almost any other.

The second is the "optimized image resize" that they say can cause slow downs but is disabled by default. I'm not a coder but I would think disabled means it skips that code all together?

Maybe I'm not remembering something more complex?

[mitchkenn]

Originally Posted by mickey7

Except I bought and paid for this to be a working game---it is NOT !!!

seems to work for me, at least the way i play it. Sorry you've had such a horrid experience with this version. At least Markus hasn't thrown his arms to the wind and said "live with it." He's still working on solutions to known issues. Send the developers your files, as in Lukas' sig. and they might be able to find something specific in those files that can resolve your issues, and possibly others.