Is Historical Play Not That Popular?

[BirdWatcher]

Originally Posted by SeanBerry

-The universe has changed. Guys may be with different teams, gotten hurt, retired, etc. It's not the same world.
-I now have to fire coaches I don't want. I'm not able to truly build a team.
-It's already simulated a whole season so I can pay attention to this year simming so I am up to date on these happenings or I can ignore it and be kinda lost on why someone won MVP.

I'm gong to be honest, I am kind of shocked I have to explain these things to fellow fans of a baseball sim. Why would anyone want to sim a year before they start playing anything? Isn't that really obvious?

Your concerns and wishes in this regard are totally valid and understandable. (Not that you needed me to tell you that- I'm just acknowledging the reality of this.)
But the responses and perspectives of those trying to assist you in this thread have also been totally valid and understandable.

You have specific desires for how to play the game. You are certainly not alone in this. Probably not alone in your specific wishes, but definitely not alone in having something specific you would love to see changed/improved in the game. But of course, no single game is going to contain everything that every user wants it to have. The great thing about OOTP, in my view, is that the developers do continue to strive to respond to the wishes of their customers and continuously build improvements in the game. Will your wish get granted soon or ever? I have no way of knowing. But it certainly might.

You think this is a no-brainer. I get that. It doesn't follow that others need to agree with you on this. Perhaps more importantly, I think that what many others here are saying is that you perhaps shouldn't make perfect the enemy of good. Hopefully someday you will get your wish. In the meantime, are the approaches that others have described here really so horrible, given the overall high quality of OOTP which you yourself have acknowledged?

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by SeanBerry

-The universe has changed. Guys may be with different teams, gotten hurt, retired, etc. It's not the same world.
-I now have to fire coaches I don't want. I'm not able to truly build a team.
-It's already simulated a whole season so I can pay attention to this year simming so I am up to date on these happenings or I can ignore it and be kinda lost on why someone won MVP.

I'm gong to be honest, I am kind of shocked I have to explain these things to fellow fans of a baseball sim. Why would anyone want to sim a year before they start playing anything? Isn't that really obvious?

Well, excuse me for asking. You have to remember there are three million ways to play this game, so it's sometimes hard to decipher what someone is trying to accomplish. It's also been light years since I've managed or played the game as a GM, so when I've run expansion drafts it's been as a spectator and was fictional in nature. Then add the fact that I'm not the sharpest pine cone in the fruit salad and things really get lost in the shuffle.

I now understand what your asking for and I think you should definitely beat the drum for this to be added as new feature. I've played as the 62 Colt 45's, but I always did so with actual roster.

I wonder what happens if you create a historical league in 1961 using real transactions. Turn injuries off completely. Turn development off completely. Then sim till the last day of the season. Turn real transactions off. The main issue here would be if you are still able to select the option for an expansion draft on the last day of the season. If you can, you may be able to start as the Mets with an expansion draft and also very little change to the actual MLB. Another issue would be financial. Ugh, so wish I had a solution.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by swampdragon

That still wouldn't solve the Ty Cobb problem. Players have day to day injuries all the time when they are unavailable for a variety of minor illnesses and injuries that don't put them on the DL (IL? This will take some getting used to.) My usual assumption is that if Cobb isn't in the starting lineup, he's unavailable, at least until he played for Connie Mack at the tail end of his career.

The fix for this would be a check box to make the player unavailable as a substitute for the computer, but the amount of micromanagement that would take would be daunting. That kind of detailed roster information simply doesn't exist that far back.

Edit: BTW, I was anti Perfect Team as well, but I've come around. The game is fun if you don't take it too seriously, you don't have to spend a nickel unless you're invested in being in a Perfect League, and it has clearly been a rousing success for the company. You can spend exactly as much time on your team as you want to spend. Furthermore, the existence of Perfect Team and the people who obviously do take it seriously has given Markus more of an incentive and the company more resources to make the AI improvements we're all looking forward to. I don't think I'm going to get an accurate 19th century out of this, but the overall quality of the historical replays will improve.

Oh wow, I actually almost sent you a pm the other day. You wouldn't happen to be the Shreveport Captains in a Silver League with the Saginaw Gears in your division, would you?

I agree with you on the Cobb deal, but, I have to think there were times when he was actually out of action. 1914 he only played in 98 games.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by BirdWatcher

Your concerns and wishes in this regard are totally valid and understandable. (Not that you needed me to tell you that- I'm just acknowledging the reality of this.)
But the responses and perspectives of those trying to assist you in this thread have also been totally valid and understandable.

You have specific desires for how to play the game. You are certainly not alone in this. Probably not alone in your specific wishes, but definitely not alone in having something specific you would love to see changed/improved in the game. But of course, no single game is going to contain everything that every user wants it to have. The great thing about OOTP, in my view, is that the developers do continue to strive to respond to the wishes of their customers and continuously build improvements in the game. Will your wish get granted soon or ever? I have no way of knowing. But it certainly might.

You think this is a no-brainer. I get that. It doesn't follow that others need to agree with you on this. Perhaps more importantly, I think that what many others here are saying is that you perhaps shouldn't make perfect the enemy of good. Hopefully someday you will get your wish. In the meantime, are the approaches that others have described here really so horrible, given the overall high quality of OOTP which you yourself have acknowledged?

The bad thing is when you have things you beg and whine for to be added. But, by the time they are added you've become addicted to some other form of play and feel guilty every minute that you never use the begged for feature. Ugh.

I begged for a manage only mode for years and years. Probably to the point of ticking off forum members to no end. Markus adds manage only, but shortly after he does so, I'm reading threads by Tiger Fan, Bluenoser, Dream Teams etc. and I decide to give spectator mode a try. I love it and have been playing that way almost exclusively since. Since 16, I've hardly done anything else.

Then come Tournaments. Man I wanted this feature. When it was first introduced it was rather primitive. But, since then it's been improved and is a great addition. But, my begging self hardly ever uses it. Believe me, it's hard to sleep at night being me.

[David Watts]

Another thing I'm hoping for. Since the game is going to create this opener/follower nonsense. What if we can finally get the option in historical to turn off rotations starters/bullpens altogether and just have a pitching staff that uses the whole staff. Walter Johnson is listed at number one...He relieves at times, but starts whenever he's fully rested. The bottom guy on the staff works in relief more often but starts at random too.

[SeanBerry]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Well, excuse me for asking. You have to remember there are three million ways to play this game, so it's sometimes hard to decipher what someone is trying to accomplish. It's also been light years since I've managed or played the game as a GM, so when I've run expansion drafts it's been as a spectator and was fictional in nature. Then add the fact that I'm not the sharpest pine cone in the fruit salad and things really get lost in the shuffle.

I now understand what your asking for and I think you should definitely beat the drum for this to be added as new feature. I've played as the 62 Colt 45's, but I always did so with actual roster.

I wonder what happens if you create a historical league in 1961 using real transactions. Turn injuries off completely. Turn development off completely. Then sim till the last day of the season. Turn real transactions off. The main issue here would be if you are still able to select the option for an expansion draft on the last day of the season. If you can, you may be able to start as the Mets with an expansion draft and also very little change to the actual MLB. Another issue would be financial. Ugh, so wish I had a solution.

That's actually a really good idea. It would at least keep rosters as close as possible. Might not get a Reds/Yankees WS and the stats might be a bit different (Maybe Maris doesn't hit 61) but it would narrow things a bit.

Have folks had issues with shutting off real transactions and playing afterwards? I recall trying this once and either not being able to switch the real transactions off or having some other side effect but it was probably very late one night and I was on my 5th drink.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by David Watts

OOTP has real transactions. It has real lineups. It has the ability to retire players according to history and the ability for players to miss seasons according to history. Isn't the next step, for real lineups with real game day rosters ? No more Ty Cobb isn't in the starting lineup, but the AI will use him as a pinch hitter every game, so he's basically Cal Ripkinesque if you use real lineups. Creating seasons with real lineups, real transactions and real daily rosters would be a daunting task, but doable if the workforce is in place.

I would suggest if going full-real in that manner, the as played schedules have to be the only schedule usable, given the differences between as played and as scheduled, especially for earlier major league seasons.

ETA: The idea here is that, with such day-by-day real-world recreation, the game designer has to put some limitations around the feature in order for it to work and forestall potential issues. If someone is aiming to recreate the past with that much fidelity in terms of roster, lineup, transactions, and player usage, then limitations on how that system works are inevitable, else the system rapidly becomes unworkable. As mentioned by others, if the user has injuries on, that will mess with the real-world data; if original schedules are used, that will mess with the real-world data. And so on. Putting parameters around such historically accurate recreations are a necessity. While it is nice to say any feature can be left as general as possible, from a practical perspective it will sometimes be unfeasible.

[swampdragon]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Oh wow, I actually almost sent you a pm the other day. You wouldn't happen to be the Shreveport Captains in a Silver League with the Saginaw Gears in your division, would you?

I agree with you on the Cobb deal, but, I have to think there were times when he was actually out of action. 1914 he only played in 98 games.

Not me. I have the Shreveport Dragons, which is in a Gold League a category too high. They're only three weeks old, and they only got promoted from Silver because they went from a wild card to the finals. And the Shreveport Mavericks, a pack team in a Bronze League.

Cobb was out with a broken rib in 1914, but I'm not even sure they had a DL back then.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by SeanBerry

That's actually a really good idea. It would at least keep rosters as close as possible. Might not get a Reds/Yankees WS and the stats might be a bit different (Maybe Maris doesn't hit 61) but it would narrow things a bit.

Have folks had issues with shutting off real transactions and playing afterwards? I recall trying this once and either not being able to switch the real transactions off or having some other side effect but it was probably very late one night and I was on my 5th drink.

Ugh, that's what I was afraid of. That and the game having some rather goofy financials.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by swampdragon

Not me. I have the Shreveport Dragons, which is in a Gold League a category too high. They're only three weeks old, and they only got promoted from Silver because they went from a wild card to the finals. And the Shreveport Mavericks, a pack team in a Bronze League.

Cobb was out with a broken rib in 1914, but I'm not even sure they had a DL back then.

Well, we now know we have 3 ootp'ers in the port area.

[Tekneek]

Historical simulations are the primary way I use OOTP, going back to when I first found the game (OOTP3).

I used to manually create minor leagues for them, but now the automatic historical minors free me up to experiment with fictional independent leagues. With the addition of better winter league implementation in 19, I can now create the California Winter League, Mexican Pacific League, Cuban Winter League, etc, and actually have players from MLB and elsewhere (especially Negro Leagues, reflecting what happened in real life) participate. It really is better than ever for what I like.

The first thing I usually do with each new version is simulate from 1871-present year and go through it looking at how all my favorite players/teams did. Then I will create another to potentially GM in.

[Cobbiusto]

I find that I enjoy almost all the options mentioned here already. I have tried managing an expansion team and also disliked the workaround of having to play a season leading up to the expansion draft. It would be nice if maybe there was an option to start an expansion season game before or after the expansion draft.

I have enjoyed games using the random debut option. Its so cool being able to see matchups like Nolan Ryan vs. Cobb or maybe Ruth, Mantle, and Bonds in a HR race down to the wire in Sept.

I have enjoyed doing the fictional leagues for the reasons mentioned above of there being no real clue how players might turn out. But I am such a fan of history, I miss seeing those names I've read of all my life actually playing on the field.

I am currently replaying the Tigers '93 season managing every game with historical transactions turned on to see if I can find a way to get that awesome lineup to overcome their lack of pitching and improve on a 3rd place finish. With the only extra options being calling up different minor leaguers early, it can be quite a challenge. The biggest problem with this mode is if you do take a team to the playoffs that didn't make it historically, you have to remember to uncheck the historical transactions box in the playoffs or you are liable to lose players right in the middle of a series.

I also find myself caught up in the PT mode of playing games with cards out of a pack, like i used to imagine doing when I opened them as a kid. In short, OOTP has so many, many, different ways to enjoy the game of baseball and I just can't seem to get enough of any of them.

[NoOne]

historical play would be fun, but it took me ~2 years to work out my ocd with normal fictional play, lol.....

i'd have to figure out the ramfications of all the choices of how ratins are calculated in order to make an educated decision... plus all the other variations of other similar things. i'd probably let development have free-reign once player is created, so that would remove ane need for understanding of 3yr recalc and such.

basically the same impediment to me using feeders. also, another person recently mentioned the effect on sim time and that really sealed the deal for me, because i wasn't even thinking about sim speed and loading times etc. i don't want to wait longer for 99.999% scrubs to play a hundred extra games/day for something that isn't 100% neccessary or really change the comlpexion much of how i play.