I check once a day for the 'update'

[BradC]

For what it's worth, here I am again to say, yes, they're still working on 2015 and the 2014 update. Nothing has been cancelled, and they're very much aware of the frustration on the forum, but it's better that they focus on what they need to do rather than keep saying "We're working on it."

And, honestly, if they do say "We worked on X today," what are the odds that will produce a flood of questions about how X is working, how does it affect Y, did you consider this or that, etc.? Replying to those questions will then take more time away from development.

[AlpineSK]

Originally Posted by BradC

For what it's worth, here I am again to say, yes, they're still working on 2015 and the 2014 update. Nothing has been cancelled, and they're very much aware of the frustration on the forum, but it's better that they focus on what they need to do rather than keep saying "We're working on it."

And, honestly, if they do say "We worked on X today," what are the odds that will produce a flood of questions about how X is working, how does it affect Y, did you consider this or that, etc.? Replying to those questions will then take more time away from development.

How about a breakdown of features. Is multiplayer still being worked on for 14 as previously stated? Is there a screen shot that shows something different from the match engine?

[Deriken]

How about just a simple statement to set basic expectations. Are we days away, weeks away, months away? It would be nice to know if I am just wasting my time checking here every day. If I knew that we were still weeks or months away yet, then I would only check once a week or so and save myself from the disappointment. It's not like any of us are going anywhere, we've continued to support the game and the devs through everything. And as someone else pointed out it's not like there is an alternative.

[StrikeFour]

Originally Posted by BradC

For what it's worth, here I am again to say, yes, they're still working on 2015 and the 2014 update. Nothing has been cancelled, and they're very much aware of the frustration on the forum, but it's better that they focus on what they need to do rather than keep saying "We're working on it."

And, honestly, if they do say "We worked on X today," what are the odds that will produce a flood of questions about how X is working, how does it affect Y, did you consider this or that, etc.? Replying to those questions will then take more time away from development.

Everything BradC stated.

Be patient. I know how frustrating it can be. I surely don't won't a product put out that's full of bugs and discrepancies, and then a flood of.....well, you know.

[tcblcommish]

You can say have patience and to be honest with you, not saying anything because it takes time away from coding and that after a statement that someone would have to answer a barrage of questions? Seriously?

How about the weekly thread that was supposed to have been kept up to date with different things? How about the open line of communication that was there for a few weeks and then vanished? If people have a frustration it is from things like this that cause that to happen.

I can't believe that one of the reasons that things don't get said is because there would be a flood of questions after something is said. Is having a buzz around a product not a good thing? Do you not see how dead this forum is and maybe it could use a little buzz like that?

There is no hype for FHM15 at all that I see because there is nothing really said about it. There is no buzz anymore about 14 because people basically believe it's dead or on its last legs and that a match engine that was promised a long time ago is rarely even talked about that was supposed to fix this game.

I'm sorry to be a basher or rag about the way things are handled but that statement is just something that irks me. Create a buzz, throw a few screens up. Make people want this again or it will just die and no one that is around here wants that.

[Duranium]

....just give us one Screenshot....pleeeease

[sprague]

Originally Posted by tcblcommish

You can say have patience and to be honest with you, not saying anything because it takes time away from coding and that after a statement that someone would have to answer a barrage of questions? Seriously?

How about the weekly thread that was supposed to have been kept up to date with different things? How about the open line of communication that was there for a few weeks and then vanished? If people have a frustration it is from things like this that cause that to happen.

I can't believe that one of the reasons that things don't get said is because there would be a flood of questions after something is said. Is having a buzz around a product not a good thing? Do you not see how dead this forum is and maybe it could use a little buzz like that?

There is no hype for FHM15 at all that I see because there is nothing really said about it. There is no buzz anymore about 14 because people basically believe it's dead or on its last legs and that a match engine that was promised a long time ago is rarely even talked about that was supposed to fix this game.

I'm sorry to be a basher or rag about the way things are handled but that statement is just something that irks me. Create a buzz, throw a few screens up. Make people want this again or it will just die and no one that is around here wants that.

Remember TBL, if they had something positive to show you- they would
screenshots, layouts, teasing ideas of what's new and coming and looking good.

Simple fact is, nothing is coming because they probably have nothing. I can't guarantee that, I'm not part of the "in group" seeing whatever it is they are doing-
but after 8 months of 'hey we almost have a better version' they would be busting to say- hey guys, thanks for patience look what's coming...

none of that speaks volumes in itself
2 years now of a beta, a release (still a beta), and nothing more updated only promises
Can only live on promises so long, pretty soon you have to deliver or you give up on your prospect, release him, and start putting your resources into your second round draft pick who looks to be developing.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by sprague

Remember TBL, if they had something positive to show you- they would
screenshots, layouts, teasing ideas of what's new and coming and looking good.

Simple fact is, nothing is coming because they probably have nothing. I can't guarantee that, I'm not part of the "in group" seeing whatever it is they are doing-
but after 8 months of 'hey we almost have a better version' they would be busting to say- hey guys, thanks for patience look what's coming...

Look, there is positive stuff coming. I've seen some of it myself

Do you think all the guys on the beta team are just lying about that? We've seen some of it, honest

But the devs are going to have to control the flow of info in the way they think best. That they aren't posting stuff doesn't mean it's not there. It just means that they're handling this the way they think is best. It may not be how I'd do it, or how you'd do it, but then it's not our livelihood we're talking about.

I'm not going to second guess them here, they're between a rock and a hard place given that when they've released info in the past and it hasn't happened when or how it was planned they got blasted for it.

Now they're getting grief for not releasing info. It's a bit of a dammed if you do, dammed if you don't situation for which there's really no perfect solution for now.

[Rich Tiger Fan]

Originally Posted by tcblcommish

You can say have patience and to be honest with you, not saying anything because it takes time away from coding and that after a statement that someone would have to answer a barrage of questions? Seriously?

How about the weekly thread that was supposed to have been kept up to date with different things? How about the open line of communication that was there for a few weeks and then vanished? If people have a frustration it is from things like this that cause that to happen.

I can't believe that one of the reasons that things don't get said is because there would be a flood of questions after something is said. Is having a buzz around a product not a good thing? Do you not see how dead this forum is and maybe it could use a little buzz like that?

There is no hype for FHM15 at all that I see because there is nothing really said about it. There is no buzz anymore about 14 because people basically believe it's dead or on its last legs and that a match engine that was promised a long time ago is rarely even talked about that was supposed to fix this game.

I'm sorry to be a basher or rag about the way things are handled but that statement is just something that irks me. Create a buzz, throw a few screens up. Make people want this again or it will just die and no one that is around here wants that.

I agree and the statement by Brad just shows how far away this product is from a developer standpoint to OOTP. Because of this statement I will no longer say that I have faith in FHM because it is an OOTP product. Clearly there is a stark contrast in how they are communicating and working with the customers. OOTP was built on interaction with the community. FHM is saying in this statement that we don't want your input anymore. We don't want your questions, we don't want to hear from you...Please be quiet, oh but come back when/if we ever release the new patch/game.

[dave1927p]

Originally Posted by Duranium

....just give us one Screenshot....pleeeease

The problem with sharing screenshots is that they keep getting tweaked based on testers input so they could be outdated quickly. I know this won't make you feel any better, but It will be worth the wait.

[landru22]

Originally Posted by sprague

Remember TBL, if they had something positive to show you- they would
screenshots, layouts, teasing ideas of what's new and coming and looking good.

Simple fact is, nothing is coming because they probably have nothing. I can't guarantee that, I'm not part of the "in group" seeing whatever it is they are doing-
but after 8 months of 'hey we almost have a better version' they would be busting to say- hey guys, thanks for patience look what's coming...

none of that speaks volumes in itself
2 years now of a beta, a release (still a beta), and nothing more updated only promises
Can only live on promises so long, pretty soon you have to deliver or you give up on your prospect, release him, and start putting your resources into your second round draft pick who looks to be developing.

Problem is, there IS no promising second round draft pick!

[progen]

I posted early on regarding the issues of this game, and how I now use it when I speak at various college classes about how not to roll out a new product.

But with that being said, I do "root" for this team to get it right! I'm not a huge hockey fan, and I play a ton of sim games, that run the gamut from baseball, soccer, football, cycling, racing, war games, etc. And one game that has really peaked my interest is a new racing sim.

Being a long time supporter of OOTP, in no way am I here to plug this new game, but I like the way that the developer is consistently posting his development journal, including screen shots, and in last week's case, four different posts. Hoping that this will be yet another option for the sim community moving forward.

So the developers here need to keep in mind, that while there may be no challenger as far as hockey games are concerned, there are a ton of other options out there for those of us that enjoy sim games in general, and enjoy trying other genres. As a consultant to many new startups, and several existing businesses, I would encourage the developers to take their time with the last 14 patch, as they need to get this right, and when 15 comes out next fall at the start of the new hockey season(or whenever), they need to do something for those that purchased 14. It is twice as hard to "retain" your customer base, as it is to find new customers.

[Redeemed143]

Originally Posted by Redeemed143

still checking everyday

[dave1927p]

Originally Posted by Rich Tiger Fan

I agree and the statement by Brad just shows how far away this product is from a developer standpoint to OOTP. Because of this statement I will no longer say that I have faith in FHM because it is an OOTP product. Clearly there is a stark contrast in how they are communicating and working with the customers. OOTP was built on interaction with the community. FHM is saying in this statement that we don't want your input anymore. We don't want your questions, we don't want to hear from you...Please be quiet, oh but come back when/if we ever release the new patch/game.

FHM is saying that they are busy working on both the patch and the new release and will release it when it is ready. FHM has proven to me to be more open to listening to ideas about the game than other developers out there. In fact, that is part of the reason for the struggles...they wanted too many features that people wanted in but there just wasn't enough time to do that for the first version. Ultimately they had to take a step back and focus on improving the base...and part of that base is the refined game engine for FHM15 and as promised to include it for the patch on FHM14.

People shouldn't hesitate in posting their ideas about features for the game, I assure you the team is open to ideas for improvement although they prioritize as required. But when it comes down to how to run their business for FHM15, well that's fully up to them. I am in the same boat as all of you for the update, but we've witnessed that you cannot please everyone no matter what. Ultimately to release an update full of bugs would do more damage than good. So they need to take their time, and simply let the finished product speak for itself. I'm not saying the backlash for their decision is unjustified, but they need to do whatever they can to get this complete. If that means leaving people in the dark a little longer then we'd like, than so be it. Right or wrong, that's how it is and when they have something to share they will.

[sprague]

Originally Posted by dave1927p

FHM is saying that they are busy working on both the patch and the new release and will release it when it is ready. FHM has proven to me to be more open to listening to ideas about the game than other developers out there. In fact, that is part of the reason for the struggles...they wanted too many features that people wanted in but there just wasn't enough time to do that for the first version. Ultimately they had to take a step back and focus on improving the base...and part of that base is the refined game engine for FHM15 and as promised to include it for the patch on FHM14.

People shouldn't hesitate in posting their ideas about features for the game, I assure you the team is open to ideas for improvement although they prioritize as required. But when it comes down to how to run their business for FHM15, well that's fully up to them. I am in the same boat as all of you for the update, but we've witnessed that you cannot please everyone no matter what. Ultimately to release an update full of bugs would do more damage than good. So they need to take their time, and simply let the finished product speak for itself. I'm not saying the backlash for their decision is unjustified, but they need to do whatever they can to get this complete. If that means leaving people in the dark a little longer then we'd like, than so be it. Right or wrong, that's how it is and when they have something to share they will.

Come on.

A bunch of us were telling this group two and half years ago all the things a hockey game needed, all that was being ignored, and why their game was going to become a disaster if they didn't pay attention to the FREE advice in the threads. Absolute key elements, all missing, all never addressed.

We were ignored completely, and the few who responded were simple bandwagon jumpers who kept saying "have faith they know what they are doing, just wait for the beta, wait for the release, wait for the patch, wait for the next version." How long do you think paying customers will wait? 2057?

Hockey people were fully ignored in the suggestions for this game in this forum right from the start. So who exactly was getting their ideas listened to?. Because I look at a hockey sim that has little realism to the sport of hockey. Almost all of those who offered quality suggestions are now gone from this game and this forum. And that is a resource lost that really hurts this product.

PS nothing personal you know Dave, my comments are not directed at you personally, just your post was where they were quoted.

[AlpineSK]

Originally Posted by dave1927p

FHM is saying that they are busy working on both the patch and the new release and will release it when it is ready. FHM has proven to me to be more open to listening to ideas about the game than other developers out there. In fact, that is part of the reason for the struggles...they wanted too many features that people wanted in but there just wasn't enough time to do that for the first version. Ultimately they had to take a step back and focus on improving the base...and part of that base is the refined game engine for FHM15 and as promised to include it for the patch on FHM14.

People shouldn't hesitate in posting their ideas about features for the game, I assure you the team is open to ideas for improvement although they prioritize as required. But when it comes down to how to run their business for FHM15, well that's fully up to them. I am in the same boat as all of you for the update, but we've witnessed that you cannot please everyone no matter what. Ultimately to release an update full of bugs would do more damage than good. So they need to take their time, and simply let the finished product speak for itself. I'm not saying the backlash for their decision is unjustified, but they need to do whatever they can to get this complete. If that means leaving people in the dark a little longer then we'd like, than so be it. Right or wrong, that's how it is and when they have something to share they will.

More receptive comparatively, yes.. considerably less communicative than the rest of their company.. also yes.

The beef for me goes back to the old GUI discussion.. The community was effectively blown off on the guise that there was some silent majority that loved the layout and function of the game, and using features incorporated in OOTP would not play with a European audience and a game of a different sport... huh?

Taking ones time is fine, but give us some idea of what we should expect. Multiplayer groundwork was laid, but is it off the table now? What core improvements should we expect in the match engine? Heck, are there going to be any additional features in FHM 15 or is it going to be a cleaned up version of 14? We can suggest all the features that we want, but at this point SHOULD we?

Or even price point.. is the company considering charging full price for FHM 15 or is it going to be more reasonable following FHM 14?

Some people are critical of this game and its progress, heck, I'M critical of it clearly, but its not out of hatred for anyone its out of frustration. They bit off more than they could chew, and now they are compensating for it. They communicated poorly and now they are OVER compensating for it. Saying "You don't like what we have to say, so we arent going to tell you anything at all anymore" is not the way to deal with a customer base.

[Särås]

Waiting and waiting...

[Oren Djoos]

It sure would be terrible having to answer a flood of questions from the couple dozen people who still bother to post here, eh?

[AlpineSK]

This is a game sold pretty much 100% online. People are buying the game here, and they are buying the game on Steam. Brad and Jeff spent a decent amount of time on podcasts selling this game this summer and it has not been patched since. In theory, they added more customers who they drew in from the respective shows to this site and Steam.

Using Sebastian's theory, the people who post here are the vocal minority. There are a number of people out there who have nothing to say about the game and still play it. Well, with that theory, we also need to understand that not only are there people playing the game who say nothing here, there are also people reading this forum wanting updates who stand in the back and say nothing.

If the team spent a fraction of the time they spent podcasting about the game to let the community that plays the game know where it stands, they would accomplish a lot. It does not have to be the frequent posts that Sebastian promised during iOOTP's development, and failed to deliver, and then promised during FHM's development and failed to deliver. No one needs to know what lines of code were written on a specific day, but something needs to be said.

Prior to this instance, I always found it interesting to see the chain of events that occurred on this forum. Prior to Brad becoming so active here, and Dave being added (and again they have both done what they can, and this post is in no way a reflection of either of them) you would see a growing number of posts upset about the game, or wondering where it stood. Usually those posts would occur with increasing vitriol, and would get up to maybe 5 or 7.. Once you hit that 5th or 7th post, you would see Jeff or Sebastian show up with some calming words for the community, but only after "provoked."

So there is your time table. Deliver something every two weeks or so to let everyone know what is going on. "Still working on the match engine, we are having trouble with the game still counting goals second after second" or "GUI got a big overhaul this week and it looks more like XYZ" or "we finished testing multiplayer last week, and we feel confident that it is ready and we can put it aside and turn our attention to something else."

Its not going to take hours of time away from the dev team, and it would go a long way with the community.

[jfgrauer]

Originally Posted by AlpineSK

This is a game sold pretty much 100% online. People are buying the game here, and they are buying the game on Steam. Brad and Jeff spent a decent amount of time on podcasts selling this game this summer and it has not been patched since. In theory, they added more customers who they drew in from the respective shows to this site and Steam.

Using Sebastian's theory, the people who post here are the vocal minority. There are a number of people out there who have nothing to say about the game and still play it. Well, with that theory, we also need to understand that not only are there people playing the game who say nothing here, there are also people reading this forum wanting updates who stand in the back and say nothing.

If the team spent a fraction of the time they spent podcasting about the game to let the community that plays the game know where it stands, they would accomplish a lot. It does not have to be the frequent posts that Sebastian promised during iOOTP's development, and failed to deliver, and then promised during FHM's development and failed to deliver. No one needs to know what lines of code were written on a specific day, but something needs to be said.

Prior to this instance, I always found it interesting to see the chain of events that occurred on this forum. Prior to Brad becoming so active here, and Dave being added (and again they have both done what they can, and this post is in no way a reflection of either of them) you would see a growing number of posts upset about the game, or wondering where it stood. Usually those posts would occur with increasing vitriol, and would get up to maybe 5 or 7.. Once you hit that 5th or 7th post, you would see Jeff or Sebastian show up with some calming words for the community, but only after "provoked."

So there is your time table. Deliver something every two weeks or so to let everyone know what is going on. "Still working on the match engine, we are having trouble with the game still counting goals second after second" or "GUI got a big overhaul this week and it looks more like XYZ" or "we finished testing multiplayer last week, and we feel confident that it is ready and we can put it aside and turn our attention to something else."

Its not going to take hours of time away from the dev team, and it would go a long way with the community.

A TOTALLY accurate description of myself!