What if Bobby Orr Stayed Healthy? FHM 2's Historical Mode Allows You to Recreate And Rewrite History

[Nino33]

G-nuke says they are a long ways off, and you say it’ll take 10+ years to “get there” – to me that’s pretty much saying the same thing


And I don’t see how comparing a baseball scrub becoming a star is comparable to the performance of maybe the best player who ever played hockey (or how telling people to look up obscure baseball players helps)


But mostly I don’t understand how you spent all the time responding to a perceived attack and didn’t respond to the multiple people asking why Bobby Orr was missing two complete seasons from his career in your sim…..when you say that “you could see greater departures from how things turned out in real life” I wouldn’t think that means entire seasons aren’t played

[G-Nuke]

Originally Posted by Tiger Fan

Seriously, do you just have a hate on for the game or one of the developers or what? Just where did it state in the blog that this was to be the model example of statistical accuracy?

It was used to promote what the game is capable of... and it was frankly lacking. I haven't seen much improvement to be honest. This is the equivalent of Rickey Henderson hitting roughly the right number of home runs, but stealing 1/3 as many bases... it's not the same player anymore, and you may as well be playing with fictional players.


In FHM1 I never once complained about marginal players here since there were so many issues with guys like Bobby Orr, Henri Richard, Marc Tardif, Tiger Williams, etc... I'll be just happy if they just get the top 20% right.


A baseball game that couldn't get Lou Gehrig right would get laughed off the market.

TigeFan, please can you in the next blog post do the completely statistical simulation, without any whatifs? Because I see Bobby Orr being healthy is going to start another cold war on our forums.

BTW, while playing OOTP, I always change "recalculate" to "development engine", because the historical accuracy is boring. But maybe it's just me.

[sprague]

Big question still missed.

Why does Orr have no years listed in his stats page for 1971 and 1972?

Was he injured or just an error in the stats page presentation.

Thanks

[Smetana]

Originally Posted by Nino33

G-nuke says they are a long ways off, and you say it’ll take 10+ years to “get there” – to me that’s pretty much saying the same thing

Tiger Fan said no such thing, Nino. You should re-read his post. He said it took OOTP baseball ten years to get the historical side up to snuff, which is true. As always, you cherry pick posts and put words in peoples' mouths.

The historical function in FHM2 is much refined from the first version of the game, and--as was mentioned--is way beyond what OOTP2 offered so many years ago. It's a work in progress, and work continues daily on this, as with all areas of the game.

Tiger Fan's sim was meant to be a sample of the game's capabilities, no more and no less.

[Cole]

Hi all,

Regarding the missing seasons, in talking with Tiger Fan apparently what happened is Orr didn't re-sign with the Bruins that year and for whatever reason sat out two years. Tiger Fan simmed through quickly as opposed to playing things out but that's as best as we can see what happened.

This is obviously not optimal and something went wrong there, so this game file is now in the hands of the developers and whatever the issue was should be patched in our next build. For whatever it's worth, I haven't seen this happen previously. Anyway, my apologies as obviously we should have caught this and run a different sim and avoided all this confusion!

I guess right now it's a what if he stayed healthy, and took two years off to try baseball a la Michael Jordan !

[Cole]

Also, my apologies for delay in answering the question but I hadn't been around the forums a lot the last couple days (on the road for my baseball league finals) and Tiger Fan had posted in the beta forum about the issue first to try to get a diagnosis so we would have more info to go public with.

[sprague]

Originally Posted by Cole

Hi all,

Regarding the missing seasons, in talking with Tiger Fan apparently what happened is Orr didn't re-sign with the Bruins that year and for whatever reason sat out two years. Tiger Fan simmed through quickly as opposed to playing things out but that's as best as we can see what happened.

This is obviously not optimal and something went wrong there, so this game file is now in the hands of the developers and whatever the issue was should be patched in our next build. For whatever it's worth, I haven't seen this happen previously. Anyway, my apologies as obviously we should have caught this and run a different sim and avoided all this confusion!


I guess right now it's a what if he stayed healthy, and took two years off to try baseball a la Michael Jordan !

Thanks for the answer.

Question. In fhm 2 can we delete players or automatically retire players like ootp? I found in 1 too many very good 41 or 42 year old players still in the free agent pool getting signed and taking roster spots from guys who really played that year. So ability to be rid of or retire players as we want can help greatly.

[Nino33]

Originally Posted by Smetana

Tiger Fan said no such thing, Nino. You should re-read his post. He said it took OOTP baseball ten years to get the historical side up to snuff, which is true. As always, you cherry pick posts and put words in peoples' mouths.

It seems like "long ways off" and "10 years to get up to snuff" mean different things to you, to me they're pretty much the same thing (to me 10+ years is a long way off)

Originally Posted by Cole

I guess right now it's a what if he stayed healthy, and took two years off to try baseball a la Michael Jordan !

And played in a higher scoring league (lowest scoring sim season was higher scoring than any IRL season), and played against much weaker goalies, and played a much more passive style

[PotatoPeeler]

Originally Posted by Nino33

It seems like "long ways off" and "10 years to get up to snuff" mean different things to you, to me they're pretty much the same thing (to me 10+ years is a long way off)

You seem to be operating under the assumption that FHM has not leveraged OOTP at all.

That, my friend, is an extremely silly assumption.

[Nino33]

Actually those are quotes from other people, not me (and the point is/was I feel they mean the same thing essentially, Smetana doesn't).


You seem to have commented to blindly support OOTP without actually reading the thread

[PotatoPeeler]

Originally Posted by Nino33

You seem to have commented to blindly support OOTP without actually reading the thread

And that would be another silly assumption.

Cheers.

[Nino33]

OK, if you did read it I'm not sure why you'd refer to my quoting the words of others as if they were mine, but oh well...

Originally Posted by PotatoPeeler

You seem to be operating under the assumption that FHM has not leveraged OOTP at all.

Do you know the idea of OOTP being significantly helpful was said not to be true by the FHM supporters/developers when FHM1 was released?

And do you know that the patch for FHM1 (the 2013-14 season game) is still being waited on? Given it doesn't seem FHM has been significantly helped by OOTP in the three years of development that have been going on, why do you think it'll be so helpful now? If the leveraging of OOTP meant years to complete the first version of FHM + an FHM2 that's a year late, I don't see how it can be promoted as being so helpful...

[tward13]

Personally I couldn't care less if they ever completed FHM1 as FHM2 will be released in the near future. I'll be moving forward rather than looking back.

[Cole]

For those of you taking jabs at each other - fair warning, please keep things civil.

[PotatoPeeler]

Originally Posted by Nino33

OK, if you did read it I'm not sure why you'd refer to my quoting the words of others as if they were mine, but oh well...


Do you know the idea of OOTP being significantly helpful was said not to be true by the FHM supporters/developers when FHM1 was released?

And do you know that the patch for FHM1 (the 2013-14 season game) is still being waited on? Given it doesn't seem FHM has been significantly helped by OOTP in the three years of development that have been going on, why do you think it'll be so helpful now? If the leveraging of OOTP meant years to complete the first version of FHM + an FHM2 that's a year late, I don't see how it can be promoted as being so helpful...

So goal in these threads is what? This is my best guess...



Please take your negativity elsewhere.

Good day.

[PotatoPeeler]

Originally Posted by Cole

For those of you taking jabs at either other - fair warning, please keep things civil.

I'm finished, sir.

Looking forward to the next blog entry.

[Nino33]

Originally Posted by Cole

For those of you taking jabs at either other - fair warning, please keep things civil.

I have a what you consider "jabs" to be honest. I avoid namecalling and excessive hyperbole...are expressing facts/opinions about the game/development taking jabs at someone?

Tiger Fan's entire response was a jab, wasn't it? Doesn't G-nuke have a right to an opinion? Are the words "awful" and "a long ways off" really so offensive?

Tiger Fan didn't even mention any of the multiple issues that multiple people had asked about (even to say "I'll get back to you"), but posted a long post that focused completely on G-nuke's opinion...and then you thanked him for it

Originally Posted by PotatoPeeler

So goal in these threads is what?

I have an interest in the success of FHM. I asked questions/made observations

The OOTP/FHM "defenders" are a concern for anyone who's hopeful for what FHM might become.....IMO you guys are your own worst enemies!

I don't think posting a sim with such issues was a good thing, but that issues exist is understandable to me.....but the FHM supporters negativity/attacking of people for differing opinions & repeating the same "beliefs" said and disproved already (and attacking those that don't agree) I don't understand




P.S. For FHM1 FHM supporters/developers didn't seem to like comparisons to OOTP, and I recall them saying that very little could be used from OOTP and they were a completely different/separate development team....I notice that the online FHM supporters now are mostly different than they were then, so maybe now they want to promote the connection/similarity to OOTP (didn't seem to be helpful/wanted the first time though)

[Smetana]

Originally Posted by Nino33

It seems like "long ways off" and "10 years to get up to snuff" mean different things to you, to me they're pretty much the same thing (to me 10+ years is a long way off.

Except the only person in this thread that put these two phrases into the same concept is you. Nobody has said that FHM will take ten years to become a strong historical sim. Read again, because you're looking silly.

We understand you like EHM very much, and that you refuse to acknowledge that that game could possibly be bested in any area by FHM. You've made that quite clear here, and at the BlueLine. Fortunately for us, I don't think you'll be able to get this forum closed down.

This is getting foolish.

[tward13]

Thanks Smetana. Some of us aren't on these other forums and aren't even aware of other possible agendas.