Will not buy it

[Lou Wuerfelball]

Since there is a Bought it thread?????? Anyone else out there like me? I am tired of the add new features and ignore the problems. Can't fix it, mask it. Blind mellon, blind eye, the world is rosey and happy are the ones that receive new things. Glitter is dazzzzzzzling.

[spitfire]

Granted the game has problems that need attention, but .....

• Reworked Pitching System
• Customizable In-Game Screen
• Improved In-Game AI
• Enhanced Play-By-Play
• Inaugural Draft With Budgets
• Improved Arbitration
• Improved Free Agent Compensation
• Improved Player Evaluation AI
• Improved Injury System

...... hardly seems like ignoring the problems. I don't know how well these things will work out, and surely there is more that will need to be addressed, but it does seem as though Markus is trying to work on some of the long-standing issues.

[jbergey22]

Nope, Even though some issues get overlooked its still a better buy for the money than anything else out there. The only game I was disappointed in was OOTP2006.

[satchel]

Originally Posted by Lou Wuerfelball

Since there is a Bought it thread?????? Anyone else out there like me? I am tired of the add new features and ignore the problems. Can't fix it, mask it. Blind mellon, blind eye, the world is rosey and happy are the ones that receive new things. Glitter is dazzzzzzzling.

Long will he wait, who insists on perfection.

[satchel]

I don't understand posts like this.

If a game isn't good enough for me, I leave it behind, and it's out of my life. I don't go lurk around its forum and say "I'll never buy this game."

There are many games that I don't plan on buying, and there's not enough time in my day to start going to the forums of every one, and announcing my intentions to not purchase them.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by satchel

I don't understand posts like this.

If a game isn't good enough for me, I leave it behind, and it's out of my life. I don't go lurk around its forum and say "I'll never buy this game."

There are many games that I don't plan on buying, and there's not enough time in my day to start going to the forums of every one, and announcing my intentions to not purchase them.

Well said I agree. The only thing I can think of is he wants attention to get his particular problem fixed and fully intends on buying it.

[battists]

Originally Posted by satchel

I don't understand posts like this.

If a game isn't good enough for me, I leave it behind, and it's out of my life. I don't go lurk around its forum and say "I'll never buy this game."

There are many games that I don't plan on buying, and there's not enough time in my day to start going to the forums of every one, and announcing my intentions to not purchase them.

*shrugs* I suspect he's looking for some kind of validation that he's not the only one who feels that way.

We're always disappointed to learn that someone won't be buying our game, but as consumers, that's the only way you can voice your opinion, so it's his right to do so. It's just as valuable to us to hear why people DON'T like the game as is to hear why people DO like the game.

It's never our intent to "ignore problems." Every year, we work hard to release a game that is as bug-free as possible, and then work hard to clear up bugs that we find in numerous patches. We do try to find a balance between new features, and improvements to existing features.

But, at the end of the day, not all customers are looking for the same thing, and you can't please all of the people all of the time.

Hopefully he can be convinced to give us a try again in the future!

[endgame]

Originally Posted by battists

It's just as valuable to us to hear why people DON'T like the game as is to hear why people DO like the game.

I'm sure he's taken the time to delineate all of his concerns about the game's shortcomings in the "Your Chance to Vent" thread and is anxiously waiting to evaluate how they were addressed in the demo, when it's released, before making his final decision.

[Captain Walrus]

Originally Posted by Lou Wuerfelball

Since there is a Bought it thread?????? Anyone else out there like me? I am tired of the add new features and ignore the problems. Can't fix it, mask it. Blind mellon, blind eye, the world is rosey and happy are the ones that receive new things. Glitter is dazzzzzzzling.

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ance-vent.html

[rem]

I think that the advertised improvements to arbitration and free agent compensation indicate a willingness to improve or fix existing things.

[Cooleyvol]

Originally Posted by battists

*shrugs* I suspect he's looking for some kind of validation that he's not the only one who feels that way.

We're always disappointed to learn that someone won't be buying our game, but as consumers, that's the only way you can voice your opinion, so it's his right to do so. It's just as valuable to us to hear why people DON'T like the game as is to hear why people DO like the game.

It's never our intent to "ignore problems." Every year, we work hard to release a game that is as bug-free as possible, and then work hard to clear up bugs that we find in numerous patches. We do try to find a balance between new features, and improvements to existing features.

But, at the end of the day, not all customers are looking for the same thing, and you can't please all of the people all of the time.

Hopefully he can be convinced to give us a try again in the future!

How about categorizing it as a cry for attention to the problems that HE sees in the game instead of labeling him as one needing some sort of validation? Does it have to be an issue with 'him' rather than one with the game?

I don't know his reasons (nor does anyone else), but as the game's rep, why is it that it has to be something to do with the poster's needs?

Isnt it possible that a few things have NOT been addressed?

[endgame]

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

How about categorizing it as a cry for attention to the problems that HE sees in the game

I think that's what Steve intended when he used the term validation. Obviously, his problems with game prompted his post, but not to seek solutions, only company as I read it.

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

instead of labeling him as one needing some sort of validation? Does it have to be an issue with 'him' rather than one with the game?

Of course it does. They're his problems until he creates a thread in which they can be discussed. In this case, it's a recruitment thread, not one to discover solutions.

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

I don't know his reasons (nor does anyone else)

Because he doesn't provide them OR provide a link to where he's posted them. Why would you assume his claim has merit beyond those areas that you, personally, feel have not been addressed?

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

, but as the game's rep, why is it that it has to be something to do with the poster's needs?

Isn't the posters need supposed to be the focus of a game's rep? Did you want Steve to break into a, "Gee, please tell me what's wrong. Maybe I can help?" Or would you have suggested a bland and uncaring, "Please post your specific problems in Technical Support?"

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

Isnt it possible that a few things have NOT been addressed?

I can't disagree. But which of those things pertain to Lou? There are countless threads, including Technical Support, Suggestions Forums, "Venting" Threads, where problems are attempting to be addressed.

The OP's original intention, as he states, is to create an oppositional thread, one that asks for voices similar to his to join him in their un-support of the next version, for whatever reason. By his rationale, and apparently yours, Nietzche had it right. "Extreme positions are not succeeded by moderate ones, but by contrary extreme positions."

[Cooleyvol]

One quote would have sufficed, eg.

In 'needs' I meant that the original response to the OP was that he had some sort of validation need; not a need for something to be added to the game. Read it in context.

His claim has merit as a member of the customer base of this company, that's why I 'assume' it has merit.

I'm not looking for an argument, but rather wanted to express my point; same as you. It just seems that a lot of the time, 'issues' are met with the 'you're wrong, that's not an issue' around here.

[battists]

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

How about categorizing it as a cry for attention to the problems that HE sees in the game instead of labeling him as one needing some sort of validation? Does it have to be an issue with 'him' rather than one with the game?

I don't know his reasons (nor does anyone else), but as the game's rep, why is it that it has to be something to do with the poster's needs?

Isnt it possible that a few things have NOT been addressed?

I wasn't intending to "label" him, Cooley! I don't think it was a stretch to say he was asking for validation when he said in his first post, "Anyone else out there like me?" And I most decidedly did not respond with "you're wrong," nor did I think there was anything in my post that could be construed that way.

Lou has made his frustrations known in a number of other threads, most recently this one, in which I'm trying to get some more information from him. It doesn't appear that he has ever posted his issue in the Tech Support forum, which is always the best way to ensure your issue gets looked at (hint, hint, everyone!), but that doesn't mean I'm going to ignore his problem!

And, absolutely, there are plenty of things that haven't been addressed. There always are for any software program. We'll keep trying to resolve those and strive for the best possible game!

[endgame]

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

One quote would have sufficed, eg.

I'm not looking for an argument, but rather wanted to express my point; same as you. It just seems that a lot of the time, 'issues' are met with the 'you're wrong, that's not an issue' around here.

Well, I wanted to address your individual points without risking the reaction to the appearance of the long, overdone, poor man's essay, that my posts are prone to evoke.

Not to unduly sidetrack this thread, but maybe it is related. I don't know. What happened to you along the way, Cooleyvol? Was it your last point, that the treatment of problems presented are not often addressed with a credibility they deserve? Did the online effect of the v2006 debacle cause a change in your overall outlook about the game and the forums? I never doubt your sincerity or dedication to the improvement of the game, but I never understood the transition that added that undertone of bitterness and near resentment when you approach these quick defenses.

I'm not looking for an argument either, just understanding. In that respect, I think it's safe to say Lou's found an advocate in you, if not philosophically, at least in voice. Is that anything you'd care to expound on in the spirit of his original post?

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by spitfire

Granted the game has problems that need attention, but .....

• Reworked Pitching System
• Customizable In-Game Screen
• Improved In-Game AI
• Enhanced Play-By-Play
• Inaugural Draft With Budgets
• Improved Arbitration
• Improved Free Agent Compensation
• Improved Player Evaluation AI
• Improved Injury System

...... hardly seems like ignoring the problems. I don't know how well these things will work out, and surely there is more that will need to be addressed, but it does seem as though Markus is trying to work on some of the long-standing issues.

What usually gets me scared is when Markus is very vague when advertising features that are being re-tooled. E.G. "imporved player evaluation AI", "improved injury system" etc...

would it hurt to be more specific and detailed? It almost seems as though he's trying to cover his ass in case things don't go as planned. This to me is where many get the idea he is masking problems, or just throwing band-aids on top of flesh wounds. If he truly knows what the shortcomings are, and knows what plan of action he his taking to correct them, then providing details should not be a problem.

[spitfire]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

What usually gets me scared is when Markus is very vague when advertising features that are being re-tooled ..... If he truly knows what the shortcomings are, and knows what plan of action he his taking to correct them, then providing details should not be a problem.

I wouldn't argue that. I hope that as release draws nearer Markus will give us more detail on what some of the various improvements actually are, as opposed to the vague one-liners from the advertising blurb. I'm hopeful that this is the year Markus really does make a dent in some of the issues that OOTP has suffered from for years. Don't imagine he'll get to everything, but I'm interested in seeing what he IS able to do for this release!

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

would it hurt to be more specific and detailed?

No, but it would take time away from coding. I'll go into more detail here later.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by Lou Wuerfelball

and ignore the problems. Can't fix it, mask it.

Which ones are you referring to, exactly?

[Bluenoser]

nm