Lost Minor League teams History Team Index

[Taco Lover]

What would cause the game to list all the previous seasons "History Team Index" information as "Inactive" from within a "Historical League" replay of seasons? While listing only the current season as "Active" on another page?

This recently occurred. Maybe I changed something within game settings to cause it? Just not sure what I changed. The minor league stats for all players still are available.

I've taken screenshots to show as an example of what I'm referring to, but still trying to figure out how to post them.

[Taco Lover]

Below are the screenshots. I don't understand why the 1983 season is listed separate from the 1969-1982 seasons. Much appreciated if someone can share with me why this change might have taken place.

Also, can anything be done to combine them once again?

[thehef]

Go to the team Settings page and check the Historical Minor Team ID? That is the field that "connects" a minor league franchise. So if the value changed from 1982 to 1983, that would explain it.

This value should be Omaha7 from 1969 to present. Why it might've changed, I don't know.

[Taco Lover]

Thank you for this information. I checked and it's got Omaha7. But... I did change another KCR minor league team heading into the season, so maybe that is the problem?

I changed the Geneva Cubs to Geneva Lake Trout and made them part of Royals franchise, but maybe didn't do it the proper way?

What I did was go into the NYPL league settings and under "League Teams" switched Cubs with the Royals for "Affiliation". I also switched out another KCR minor league team, giving it to another franchise. But forget who. Might have been Copper Kings in the Pioneer League.

What's the proper or best way to change who a minor league team belongs to?

[thehef]

Based upon what you wrote, the franchise ID would've been Omaha7 from 1969 thru where you are now (1983). So the "connection" should be there. Hard to say, and unless you made a backup, there's no way to verify (that I know of) what the franchise ID was from 1969-1982.

From what you wrote, I can't see the other changes you made being the cause of your issue. But again, it's hard to say.

One thing, though: Since you are playing with historical minors enabled, then at the start of each offseason the game is going to overwrite any minor league structure changes you made and will - for teams names & affiliations - read the actual historical structure from the milbteams.csv file. This doesn't speak directly to the issue you reported, but it is something to be aware of...

The only way to make the changes you indicated and not have the game overwrite them each offseason would be to make those changes within the milbteams.csv file. However, first-year minor leaguers import as rookies based upon team name. Therefore, if your 1983 game has the Geneva Royals instead of the Geneva Cubs, players who were on the Geneva Cubs in real life will have no team-name-match, and therefore will either a) import as free agents, or b) not import at all. Whether the answer is a) or b) I am not sure. It should be a) but there is a related bug which may mean the answer for the moment is b)... Now, perhaps less problematic would be changing the affiliations in the milbteams.csv file. If you were to association the Geneva Cubs with the Royals organization but leave the nickname as Cubs, rookie players should import fine. The only thing would be that those rookies - who debuted as part of the Cubs organization - would instead be part of the Royals organization (because you have associated Geneva with KC).

Hopefully this all makes sense. If not, ask away.

Oh, and getting back to your original issue, I'm assuming this is an isolated one. IOW, you've checked other long-term, stable minor-league franchises - such as the Denver Bears or Oklahoma City 89ers - and they show continuous history, with no break from 1982 to 1983. Correct?

[Taco Lover]

Thank you for helping me with this. I do have a backup at 10-1-1982 and all minor league teams still show their entire full year-by-year history.

However the Omaha Historical Minor Team ID is - Omaha4*IND1

[Taco Lover]

At some point between 10-1-1982 and 1-1-1983 the minor league history was lost. I'm guessing maybe that is because the minor league ID changed to Omaha7.

[Taco Lover]

All the minor league teams in settings have same Historical Minor Team ID, but... also have *IND1, or *IND2, or *IND3, or *IND4 tacked on.

On 10-1-1982 the KCR Historical Minor Team ID were:

Omaha4*IND1
Jacksonville5*IND2
CharlestonSC9*IND3
FortMyers2*IND3
GCL_Royals*IND4
GenevaNY3*IND4

At some point between 10-1-1982 and 1-1-1983 they changed to:

Omaha7
Jacksonville5
CharlestonSC9
FortMyers2
GCL_Royals1
GenevaNY3

Same is true for all other Minor League teams. This seems to be likely reason for the lost history for each. Why did the Historic Minor Team ID change for all the teams?

[thehef]

Originally Posted by Taco Lover

However the Omaha Historical Minor Team ID is - Omaha4*IND1

Omaha4*IND1 is the old format of minor league franchise ID's. When I say "old" I'm referring the format that was in place from the beginning of OOTP' including minor leagues (I believe that was OOTP 17) thru the tail end of OOTP 22 (I believe that the new - accurate - format was put into place at the end of OOTP 22's update cycle, like maybe in December of last year)... I know all about the new/accurate format because I came up with it, and the milb franchise histories, myself

So what likely happened is that you created your game using an milbteams.txt file that included the old format (because that was the file in place at time you created your game; you did nothing wrong here). At some point during your 1982 season, OOTP updated the file in question. By the time you reached your 1982-83 offseason (likely in late Oct 1982), OOTP updated minor league structure based upon the contents of the new file, and thus the franchise ID for Omaha (and every other MiLB team) was different, and thus you get a break in the history for all teams.

Here's what I would do, purely as a test:

Restore a copy of the game from your 10/1/82 backup. Change the franchise ID of your Omaha team from Omaha4*IND1 to Omaha7. Then run the game until it reaches the offseason. Then check to make sure that the game did not update the franchise id (it should remain Omaha7 is your milbteams.csv file is current). Then move the game forward to the 1983 season, and beyond. Then check Omaha's history. There should now be a connection between your 1982 and 1983 seasons (and 1984, 1985, etc.), as shown on the history page. However, I do not know if (I doubt) that there will be history that connects prior seasons (1969-1981).

What you could do is use an old milbteams.csv file that would have the old milb franchise id's. However, the problem with that is that those id's are very inaccurate. They change whenever an affiliation changes or team name changes. They have no connection to actual franchise histories. In the case of Omaha, this would not be a big deal because Omaha was quite stable in terms of affiliation and name from 1969 to current. But, believe me, that is not the case with many minor league franchises.

There would be be another option, but it would involve significant editing of the milbteams.csv file. If that's something you would be interested in, let me know and I'll try to explain what would need to be done.

[Taco Lover]

Could the reason be due to the Game originated from OOTP18 (or maybe even OOTP15, I forget which) and the Historical Team ID were changed?

[Taco Lover]

Originally Posted by thehef

Omaha4*IND1 is the old format of minor league franchise ID's. When I say "old" I'm referring the format that was in place from the beginning of OOTP' including minor leagues (I believe that was OOTP 17) thru the tail end of OOTP 22 (I believe that the new - accurate - format was put into place at the end of OOTP 22's update cycle, like maybe in December of last year)... I know all about the new/accurate format because I came up with it, and the milb franchise histories, myself

So what likely happened is that you created your game using an milbteams.txt file that included the old format (because that was the file in place at time you created your game; you did nothing wrong here). At some point during your 1982 season, OOTP updated the file in question. By the time you reached your 1982-83 offseason (likely in late Oct 1982), OOTP updated minor league structure based upon the contents of the new file, and thus the franchise ID for Omaha (and every other MiLB team) was different, and thus you get a break in the history for all teams.

Here's what I would do, purely as a test:

Restore a copy of the game from your 10/1/82 backup. Change the franchise ID of your Omaha team from Omaha4*IND1 to Omaha7. Then run the game until it reaches the offseason. Then check to make sure that the game did not update the franchise id (it should remain Omaha7 is your milbteams.csv file is current). Then move the game forward to the 1983 season, and beyond. Then check Omaha's history. There should now be a connection between your 1982 and 1983 seasons (and 1984, 1985, etc.), as shown on the history page. However, I do not know if (I doubt) that there will be history that connects prior seasons (1969-1981).

What you could do is use an old milbteams.csv file that would have the old milb franchise id's. However, the problem with that is that those id's are very inaccurate. They change whenever an affiliation changes or team name changes. They have no connection to actual franchise histories. In the case of Omaha, this would not be a big deal because Omaha was quite stable in terms of affiliation and name from 1969 to current. But, believe me, that is not the case with many minor league franchises.

There would be be another option, but it would involve significant editing of the milbteams.csv file. If that's something you would be interested in, let me know and I'll try to explain what would need to be done.

Jinx! We posted at the same time.

Thank you! This is very helpful!!! I will try it, but need wait until I'm not tired LOL. I'm likely to make mistakes if I do anything now.

You have given me lots of very helpful info that I'm looking forward to utilizing. Thank you for taking time to send me all the detailed information.

[Taco Lover]

A related kind of funny story... so I've been replaying the Kansas City Royals history beginning with OOTP18. I've gotten thousands of hours of enjoyment from it. On STEAM the hours played show as:

OOTP15 - 218 hours
OOTP18 - 4,218 hours
OOTP19 - 71 hours
OOTP20 - 2 hours
OOTP21 - 3 hours
OOTP22 - 630 hours

I was perfectly content to play OOTP18 for the rest of my life, but then I saw all the cool looking new 3D stadiums in OOTP22!!! So I purchased 19, 20, and 21 to reach 22. (Money well spent! Plus with 4,000+ hours of enjoyment on OOTP 18... case could be made that OOTP had well earned some more money from me! )

So I've had my KCR history going well 1969 thru 1982. But have had some issues with how info transferred into the 1983 season (defensive ratings and minor league team history). Initially I was quite bummed about this... and to some extent still am. But hey, that is how life goes sometimes. Once in awhile we catch a bad hop.

So here is the kind of funny part... for first time that I can recall since buying OOTP in 2015 I auto played a full season and payed attention to it. WOW! It sure was enjoyable! Part of me is now just wanting to continue with that auto-played season and/or start completely over back in 1969 and replay it all with knowledge I now have to more quickly auto-play seasons.

It's just a really awesome game. Baseball and OOTP both. Funny how when one door closes and just seems lousy... it can actually lead to discovering some really good things.

[thehef]

Wow, that's a lot of hours on OOTP18! But ya, I can see how those 3D stadiums would be enticing

In replaying the history of the Royals, does that mean you are using historical transactions? If so, how are you handling the minors with respect to player movement? Just curious...

At any rate, re this...

Originally Posted by Taco Lover

Part of me is now just wanting to continue with that auto-played season...

... and this...

Originally Posted by thehef

There would be be another option, but it would involve significant editing of the milbteams.csv file. If that's something you would be interested in, let me know and I'll try to explain what would need to be done.

You could go back to your October 1982 backup and then make changes to the MiLBteams.csv file in order to keep your history intact. You'd first need to decide what level of history is important to you:

1) Just concerned with Omaha Royals history: This would be an easy edit task.
2) Just concerned with Royals minor league history: This would be more involved, but fairly easy.
3) Just concerned with AAA history: More involved, but not too difficult.
4) Concerned with all minor league history: Quite involved, will take plenty of time.

If one of those options appeal to you, LMK and I'll help you through the process

[Taco Lover]

I'm not using historical transactions, but do have rules in place based upon historical transactions.

Some of the transaction rules are:
*Players are only eligible to be on teams they were on in real life.
*Trades cannot take place during the season. Last day for trading is March 31.
*I for most part do all the transactions myself manually.
*Teams can only be drafted by a team whom they actually played for.
*At beginning of each season I go thru each teams roster and if a player was traded that season to a team they are not currently on I then move them to that team.
*A player is not eligible to play on a team past the year he actually was on that team, but can be on a team in year previous to years he was actually on the team. This causes the DRAFT to have a very significant role in my game.
*I don't concern myself with trades of minor league players, as long as the player was on the franchise at some point in their career they can play on one of that franchises minor league teams.

For example, Ken Singleton is only eligible to play on the Orioles, Mets, or Expos. His eligible years for each are:

NYM 1970-1971
MON 1970-1974
BAL 1970-1984

[Taco Lover]

4) Concerned with all minor league history: Quite involved, will take plenty of time.

The one above for all ml history interests me the most, but I'm not sure yet if I want to put in the time it will take to fix. Think I'll just try this one below for KCR ml history only and see how long that takes to do.

2) Just concerned with Royals minor league history: This would be more involved, but fairly easy

[thehef]

Originally Posted by Taco Lover

4) Concerned with all minor league history: Quite involved, will take plenty of time.

The one above for all ml history interests me the most, but I'm not sure yet if I want to put in the time it will take to fix. Think I'll just try this one below for KCR ml history only and see how long that takes to do.

2) Just concerned with Royals minor league history: This would be more involved, but fairly easy

OK, I'll do a little research and get back to you with the steps. Question: Are you familiar with working with csv files in Excel, doing filters & sorts, that sort of thing?

[Taco Lover]

Originally Posted by thehef

OK, I'll do a little research and get back to you with the steps. Question: Are you familiar with working with csv files in Excel, doing filters & sorts, that sort of thing?

I am not familiar with any of those and have only a limited/basic computer knowledge.

Right now I'm trying the idea you proposed earlier -

Restore a copy of the game from your 10/1/82 backup. Change the franchise ID of your Omaha team from Omaha4*IND1 to Omaha7. Then run the game until it reaches the offseason. Then check to make sure that the game did not update the franchise id (it should remain Omaha7 is your milbteams.csv file is current). Then move the game forward to the 1983 season, and beyond. Then check Omaha's history. There should now be a connection between your 1982 and 1983 seasons (and 1984, 1985, etc.), as shown on the history page. However, I do not know if (I doubt) that there will be history that connects prior seasons (1969-1981).

If this works... thinking of just going thru each minor league team and changing the franchise ID to what it converts to with the update. For example,

Omaha4*IND1
Jacksonville5*IND2
CharlestonSC9*IND3
FortMyers2*IND3
GCL_Royals*IND4
GenevaNY3*IND4

become

Omaha7
Jacksonville5
CharlestonSC9
FortMyers2
GCL_Royals1
GenevaNY3

[Taco Lover]

So far... so good. The game has been advanced to JAN 2, 1983 and the minor league teams with the changed franchise ID all had the team history carry over, while teams that were not changed lost their history.

Even the Geneva Royals history carried with the GenevaNY3 ID. Just had to rename it and switch "Affiliation" from Cubs to Royals under NYPL Game Settings (LEAGUE SETTINGS > LEAGUE & TEAMS).

Will be auto playing forward to next season to see if any issues come up. If not... (fingers crossed) thinking of just manually adjusting each minor league team ID same as was done for all the KCR ml franchise IDs.

[Taco Lover]

Thank you thehef for all the help!

The game has now been advanced to OCT 20, 1982 and out of 137 minor league teams in my KCR replay game, 129 transferred over with the Team History and following 8 did not.

1) Pulaski-BC-ATL
2) Salinas-A-CHC
3) Auburn-BC-HOU
4) Beloit-A-MIL
5) Madison-A-OAK
6) Bakersfield-A-SEA
7) Springfield-A-STL
8) Johnson City-BC-STL

I'm not sure why they didn't transfer and am guessing maybe I mistyped a letter/number or something, but am not too concerned with those teams. It's a minor detail in the grand scheme of everything else. The KCR minors and 95% of the other teams transferred fine and that too me is a huge success.

[thehef]

Originally Posted by Taco Lover

Thank you thehef for all the help!

The game has now been advanced to OCT 20, 1982 and out of 137 minor league teams in my KCR replay game, 129 transferred over with the Team History and following 8 did not.

1) Pulaski-BC-ATL
2) Salinas-A-CHC
3) Auburn-BC-HOU
4) Beloit-A-MIL
5) Madison-A-OAK
6) Bakersfield-A-SEA
7) Springfield-A-STL
8) Johnson City-BC-STL

I'm not sure why they didn't transfer and am guessing maybe I mistyped a letter/number or something, but am not too concerned with those teams. It's a minor detail in the grand scheme of everything else. The KCR minors and 95% of the other teams transferred fine and that too me is a huge success.

Simple explanation for the first 7 listed: These were all new franchises for 1982 so they do not have pre-1982 history. Not sure what happened with J-City...