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Old 08-23-2013, 02:20 AM   #161
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No problem, Badger ...

Bru, You're right regarding to unfair strength increase ... but, it also help toward healing and rejuvenating muscles, tendons, ect - quickly... which, I often couldn't help but wonder about McGwire ... he has terrible recurrence of back injuries throughout his career ... He didn't need the strength, for the guy hit 49 hrs , as a rookie and has one of the best Hr/AB ratio, ever ... I believed he uses them, originally for healing quickly and staying in the Game longer - more so then increases his strength ... ahh, but he still abuses them just the same, knowingly it was illegal in sports ...
THat does raise an interesting point, I know myself, when I was 8, I had some kind of ailment (I have no idea what it was), where I got a steroid shot. In fact, steroid shot is the only thing from it I remember, partly because I was petrified of shots, but mostly I was thinking "isnt that the stuff that gets you banned from the Olympics?".

Wish I kind remember why I needed it, to explain better, but it was close to 30 years ago, not to mention I was looking at life from a kid's perspective back then.

One time, when talking with my dad about steroids in baseball. Considering using steroids to get healthy, allowing maybe have an independent doctor affiliated with the MLB office who oversees the prescription or what have you. And test very regularly during the healing process to keep it honest. Course, we were a bit random musing over the subject, neither of us have medical expertise, so we dont know all the loops that would have to be pulled out to make it work.
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Old 08-23-2013, 02:22 AM   #162
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Yes, because you're training more. The way people talk here, it's like they think it's a magic syringe that expands your biceps as soon as it pricks your ass.

I wonder if gamma radiation would be an illegal substance.


Sorry, the bicep expansion thing made me think of the Hulk.
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Old 08-23-2013, 02:26 AM   #163
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Whether steroids. make. you. stronger. or they just allow you to train more to build up more muscle, they are an ARTIFICIAL METHOD OF BODY AND STRENGTH BUILDING. In athletics, unless all athletes partake of steroids, which they should not do for health reasons, the users have an UNFAIR ADVANTAGE in competition.

Rogaine, by the way, does promote hair growth as well as make one hairier. So with regular use one can split more hairs, among other things.
No rogaine for me then, I already got more back and ear hair than I know what to do with.
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Old 09-01-2013, 05:14 PM   #164
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I'm almost at the point of meh-ness with drug taking in sport... it's almost so prevalent now as to be ridiculous. Hopefully this is baseball's Lance Armstrong moment, and hopefully athletics is going through this as well now.

I've never been an A-Rod fan since that moment in game 6 (IIRC) of the 2004 ALCS and his blatant bitch-slap to Arroyo's glove
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Old 09-01-2013, 06:30 PM   #165
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Alex Rodriguez is so bad that he makes Barry Bonds almost likable. Almost.
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Old 09-01-2013, 06:33 PM   #166
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IMHO the next Bargaining Agreement has to have a new penalty for guys who test positive for PEDs: One and Done. You test positive once, you're out of here! And there ought to be an agreement that any contract is immediately null and void if a player tests positive for PEDs.
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Old 09-03-2013, 02:15 PM   #167
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Make HGH mandatory!
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Old 09-03-2013, 02:24 PM   #168
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I'm almost at the point of meh-ness with drug taking in sport... it's almost so prevalent now as to be ridiculous.
I'm not sure about other sports, but I see the opposite happening in baseball; people are becoming more outraged over PED cheating and expressing negative opinions of the users and their "accomplishments." Much more so than even a few years ago.

Case in point: I'm watching a Yankees game on their local sports network, YES. The announcers are homers (meaning biased to the team they work for), which is fine; expected really. Maybe even preferred, frankly. I want them to sound elated when I am and depressed when I am.

Anyway, two of them are discussing A-Rod's homers and how he is approaching Willie Mays' number of 660. First announcer says, "You really can't get excited about it if he does reach that number, given his past." Second announcer says, "Yep, that's right. Too much water under that bridge" or something to that effect.

I cannot even imagine a couple of Yankee announcers saying something like this about a major organizational investment like A-Rod, a few years ago. Now it seems more and more common for people to be dismissive and disgusted with these cheats.

The same announcers went on to discuss how the home run records of Maris (61) and Aaron (755) are re-emerging as the true milestones. More power to that idea.
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Old 09-03-2013, 04:15 PM   #169
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I'm not sure about other sports, but I see the opposite happening in baseball; people are becoming more outraged over PED cheating and expressing negative opinions of the users and their "accomplishments." Much more so than even a few years ago.

Case in point: I'm watching a Yankees game on their local sports network, YES. The announcers are homers (meaning biased to the team they work for), which is fine; expected really. Maybe even preferred, frankly. I want them to sound elated when I am and depressed when I am.

Anyway, two of them are discussing A-Rod's homers and how he is approaching Willie Mays' number of 660. First announcer says, "You really can't get excited about it if he does reach that number, given his past." Second announcer says, "Yep, that's right. Too much water under that bridge" or something to that effect.

I cannot even imagine a couple of Yankee announcers saying something like this about a major organizational investment like A-Rod, a few years ago. Now it seems more and more common for people to be dismissive and disgusted with these cheats.

The same announcers went on to discuss how the home run records of Maris (61) and Aaron (755) are re-emerging as the true milestones. More power to that idea.
I'm so sick of people giving sanctity to records set by people who were likely as clean as A-Rod. Ugh! Quit playing games with history!
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Old 09-03-2013, 04:21 PM   #170
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I'm so sick of people giving sanctity to records set by people who were likely as clean as A-Rod. Ugh! Quit playing games with history!
Greenies do not help you hit 660 homeruns, steroids and HGH do. Sad you just dont get it Madden.
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Old 09-03-2013, 11:44 PM   #171
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Here's how the list looks with the known cheaters removed. I'm a bit suspicious of anybody from the late 90's to late 00's, but we'll let them stand. Looking at this list, it's not unlikely that someone will break Maris' record someday soon . . . or is it? Without the PED's, can somebody top 61 home runs in one season in today's game?
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Old 09-03-2013, 11:54 PM   #172
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When you look at it this way, it's hard to envision anybody playing today catching Aaron. Ramirez is done. Pujols?

Hey, John Madden! This making you sick again? So sorry, but I'll "play games with history" as much as I want.

Only, I would not call it playing games with history. "Restoring history" might be a better phrase.

The guys whose names I lined out don't belong on the same list with the guys named Williams and Mays, Maris and Aaron. They are cheaters, liars, and disgraces to the great game of Baseball.
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Old 09-04-2013, 12:01 AM   #173
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Next objection, already answered: If ANY of the players whose names I did NOT cross off these lists are found in the future to have used PED's to enhance their performances, same treatment.

Sure, some of them could very well be guilty but it's innocent until proven guilty. If they are, though, the penalty would be swift and sure in my game of Baseball: Banishment with records stricken from the books.

Let 'em keep their ill-gotten $$$millions as consolation. That probably would satisfy some of them anyway as this was their real motive. How could anyone be satisfied by being a home run king, knowing that he got their artificially? Are they that stupid?

Antacid, John Madden?
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Old 09-04-2013, 12:43 AM   #174
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Déjà Bru ...

How come Manny's name is not cross off, as well ... did I miss something about him ?? ... wasn't he suspended for 100 games for PED's but instead chose retirement
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Old 09-04-2013, 01:19 AM   #175
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The biggest problem I have with the ol' "cross names off records books" approach is simply the numbers were allowed to be attained. Quite simply if baseball wanted to keep cheaters from the game they would suspend them or ban them from playing. But yet here those numbers are. Baseball didn't ban or suspend these players or otherwise make any attempt to keeping them from playing. They knew what was going so in my opinion the numbers stand.

The second problem I have is the witch hunt against sluggers when the vast majority of those who have been found to be juicing have not been sluggers. It would be nice if the media and fans in general would talk about the whole issue instead of just a small percentage of it. I'm uncomfortable with sluggers essentially taking the blame and plenty of other guys of the era getting a free pass.

Thirdly, we are kidding ourselves if we think drugging is out of baseball. People have been cheating since day one and they will continue to cheat. The drugs are always ahead of the tests, and if one is tested for they'll find something else. People cheat on tests, they cheat on their taxes and they will sure cheat at baseball. The game has never been clean and never will be.
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Old 09-04-2013, 03:24 AM   #176
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The biggest problem I have with the ol' "cross names off records books" approach is simply the numbers were allowed to be attained. Quite simply if baseball wanted to keep cheaters from the game they would suspend them or ban them from playing. But yet here those numbers are. Baseball didn't ban or suspend these players or otherwise make any attempt to keeping them from playing. They knew what was going so in my opinion the numbers stand.

The second problem I have is the witch hunt against sluggers when the vast majority of those who have been found to be juicing have not been sluggers. It would be nice if the media and fans in general would talk about the whole issue instead of just a small percentage of it. I'm uncomfortable with sluggers essentially taking the blame and plenty of other guys of the era getting a free pass.

Thirdly, we are kidding ourselves if we think drugging is out of baseball. People have been cheating since day one and they will continue to cheat. The drugs are always ahead of the tests, and if one is tested for they'll find something else. People cheat on tests, they cheat on their taxes and they will sure cheat at baseball. The game has never been clean and never will be.
It's different then with Rose or Shoeless though, thats why their #'s should be removed. Other then Pettitte and Clemens no other great pitchers have been busted that I can think of. Cheating will always be around, it just depends on who gets busted for what.
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Old 09-04-2013, 03:44 AM   #177
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It's different then with Rose or Shoeless though, thats why their #'s should be removed. Other then Pettitte and Clemens no other great pitchers have been busted that I can think of. Cheating will always be around, it just depends on who gets busted for what.
Rose did nothing as a PLAYER to get himself banned from baseball. The notion of making him an unperson in the record books is extremely bothersome.
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Old 09-04-2013, 03:51 AM   #178
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Rose did nothing as a PLAYER to get himself banned from baseball.
That doesn't matter insofar as the transgression Rose committed. The rules on gambling are crystal clear, have been in place for many decades, and posted for everyone to read. Rose chose to ignore that. And he paid the price.
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Old 09-04-2013, 04:09 AM   #179
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Rose did nothing as a PLAYER to get himself banned from baseball. The notion of making him an unperson in the record books is extremely bothersome.
I did not mean Rose & Shoeless #'s should be removed, I was referrring to PED users that Bru crossed off. That is why I said it is different. Rose gambled as a mgr and Shoe gambled in a WS not regular season. If Speaker & Cobb can gamble in a game and then get thrown onto the same team together and then still go into the HOF, so should Shoe & Charlie Hustle.
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Old 09-04-2013, 06:54 AM   #180
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That doesn't matter insofar as the transgression Rose committed. The rules on gambling are crystal clear, have been in place for many decades, and posted for everyone to read. Rose chose to ignore that. And he paid the price.
I was not referring to his ban, I specifically mention the idea Game offered of expunging his accomplishments from the record. He has since clarified his post.

The sentence you chose not to quote makes clear my thought. Like the rules on gambling, my post is crystal clear and there for everyone to read. You chose to ignore half of it.
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