Home | Webstore
Latest News: OOTP 25 Available - FHM 10 Available - OOTP Go! Available

Out of the Park Baseball 25 Buy Now!

  

Go Back   OOTP Developments Forums > Out of the Park Developments > Talk Sports

Talk Sports Discuss everything that is sports-related, like MLB, NFL, NHL, NBA, MLS, NASCAR, NCAA sports and teams, trades, coaches, bad calls etc.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-29-2005, 06:50 AM   #61
theasfl
Hall Of Famer
 
theasfl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Coral Springs, FL or Orlando, FL (UCF)
Posts: 7,988
Quote:
Originally Posted by kq76
I don't think we should be that cynical. Would we say the same about an American laboratory if say someone won several MVP awards in baseball, that they wouldn't test their fellow American or give up the tests? I don't think so. I think there's plenty of Americans who would love to nail Barry Bonds. Now some individuals might be more inclined to get a foreigner, but I don't think we need to go there.
Id love to nail Bonds myself (in the most non-sexual way possible), but baseball and cycling are different. From many points of view, the French view the Tour de France as their sport, or their possesion. American's don't necessarily think of baseball or any other major sport that way; at least anymore. There are plenty of American's in baseball doing well at once and plenty of non-Americans doing well at the same time as those American's are doing well. In the Tour de France there is only one winner, and the French have been in a long drought (Bernard Hinault in 85).

Cycling is more of a nationality sport than Baseball and Id believe in some sense Europe can be the same way in some aspects. In the MLB teams are from cities and the players background isn't usually looked on nearly as much as in cycling. In Cycling teams are from countries and so are the riders, not that the riders from one team are always from that country.

In short, players in baseball represent themselves and their team. In cycling, riders represent themselves and their country.

There are media-darlings and there are media-devils. A Frenchmen is going to be more likely in this scenario to be the darling than the devil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kq76
You'd say the same would be true if he was Zimbabwean, that they'd still try and get him, that it's not an anti-American thing? Okay, I'll accept that from you, but I doubt most Americans bashing the French over this think that. BTW, did they do something similar when Indurain, a Spaniard IIRC, won all his championships?
To blend that in to what I was saying, Armstrong was a media-devil over there. His entire career tabloid after tabloid would accuse him of doing such and such. Indurain was a shy, quiet man who rode for Bannesto (Im not sure if they were Spanish or French, and came about in a largely un-scrutinized period of cycling, pre-doping; unlike Armstrong. Armstrong came about and dominated the sport shortly after the doping allegations began to be prevelent for damn near anyone.

The Spanish and Italians are more acceptable to share the sport with from a French perspective because they're traditionally France's main rivals over the years, and their respective tours, the Giro de Italia and the Tour of Spain, are the next most highly regarded races after the Tour de France.

Jan Ullrich, a German, faced similar doping allegations at first from the press when he won in 1997, and was 2nd in 98, but then Armstrong came along in 99 with Ullrich sitting out and his problems went away.

Its not just France vs America its France having pride over their Tour. Although I believe Armstrong being American does exacerbate the problem; I don't by any means think thats the entire reason why he's so scrutinized by the French.

We aren't regarded all that highly by many in Europe. Here's something Ullrich said in response to Armstrong criticizing his training habits about a year ago,

Quote:
http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/7235.0.html

"This comment is probably due to his American mentality. He has no idea how hard I train. I am ambitious and devoted otherwise I would not have reached the top of this sport."
ok enough of my mini-research paper...I already had to do one this month thats one too many, and of course its 6 AM.
__________________
All-Sports Fantasy League

The ASFL

22 different games, 9 sports. Please check out the website (www.theasfl.com/asfl2/). The league is free- if you're interested please fill out the signup form and/or email the commissioner.


Miami Talons (ABL): 2004, 2005 & 2008 Champs
theasfl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2005, 07:23 AM   #62
kq76
Global Moderator
 
kq76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 10,668
Good stuff. Thanks for that.

I'm not up on how the French feel about the Tour de France, but I'm willing to accept that they very well could feel some bit of ownership over it. I know many of us Canadians certainly do over hockey and resent having to change the game for Americans to make it more acceptable for them (I'm talking about the fighting aspect of it, not the new NHL's higher scoring) or to sacrifice some of our teams to go down there and help grow the game. I think the same could have been said about many Americans when the Bluejays won their first World Series. At least I sensed some resentment over it from the American media at the time. So yeah, I can accept that there might be some noses out of joint. But I just don't think we need to go there. There's plenty of other things about it that we can talk about.

It's interesting that you mention that in baseball players represent their teams and themselves rather than their countries yet more and more we're seeing this change. I understand it can be good as it helps grow the game (I love hearing about how the Canadians are doing), but at the same time I think there are some bad parts about it when it gets to the point of unfairly including the country's citizens when bashing the country. I think it is sometimes fair to bash a country, just not its people in general. I should say I've been at fault for this in the past myself, but I've tried to be more sensitive to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theasfl
We aren't regarded all that highly by many in Europe.
I think you could replace "many in Europe" with "most outside the USA", but I think that's more to do with invading another country without international blessing. But that doesn't mean Americans should stoop to the level of bashing others. After all, the invasion was not the fault of all Americans, just some, and if non-Americans can't see that then that's their problem.
kq76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2005, 04:06 PM   #63
theasfl
Hall Of Famer
 
theasfl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Coral Springs, FL or Orlando, FL (UCF)
Posts: 7,988
Quote:
Originally Posted by kq76
Good stuff. Thanks for that.

I'm not up on how the French feel about the Tour de France, but I'm willing to accept that they very well could feel some bit of ownership over it. I know many of us Canadians certainly do over hockey and resent having to change the game for Americans to make it more acceptable for them (I'm talking about the fighting aspect of it, not the new NHL's higher scoring) or to sacrifice some of our teams to go down there and help grow the game. I think the same could have been said about many Americans when the Bluejays won their first World Series. At least I sensed some resentment over it from the American media at the time. So yeah, I can accept that there might be some noses out of joint. But I just don't think we need to go there. There's plenty of other things about it that we can talk about.
I didnt know you were Canadian...now you may just give canadiencreed a run for his money for the best member of these boards from the land of leafs...

I was 7 when the Blue Jays won in 93 so all I remember is Carter's HR...too Young to know the medias reaction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kq76
It's interesting that you mention that in baseball players represent their teams and themselves rather than their countries yet more and more we're seeing this change. I understand it can be good as it helps grow the game (I love hearing about how the Canadians are doing), but at the same time I think there are some bad parts about it when it gets to the point of unfairly including the country's citizens when bashing the country. I think it is sometimes fair to bash a country, just not its people in general. I should say I've been at fault for this in the past myself, but I've tried to be more sensitive to it.
I dont mean to say that baseball players dont have their nationality taken into account; its evident that nowadays its very prevelent with the World Baseball Classic coming up (an idea I love). Im just stating that its different in cycling, because the teams themselves are from countries and not cities; even though a rider could be from another country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kq76
I think you could replace "many in Europe" with "most outside the USA", but I think that's more to do with invading another country without international blessing. But that doesn't mean Americans should stoop to the level of bashing others. After all, the invasion was not the fault of all Americans, just some, and if non-Americans can't see that then that's their problem.
Most of the world hates our government outright, but not necessarily Americans or at least all of us. In Europe theres more of a belief in an American way of thinking that is aimed at all of us, but thats just my opinion and Im not really going to argue it as it isn't exactly the best news in the world regardless.
__________________
All-Sports Fantasy League

The ASFL

22 different games, 9 sports. Please check out the website (www.theasfl.com/asfl2/). The league is free- if you're interested please fill out the signup form and/or email the commissioner.


Miami Talons (ABL): 2004, 2005 & 2008 Champs
theasfl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2005, 10:07 PM   #64
kq76
Global Moderator
 
kq76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 10,668
Quote:
Originally Posted by theasfl
I didnt know you were Canadian...now you may just give canadiencreed a run for his money for the best member of these boards from the land of leafs...
Nah. That title firmly belongs to LGO if you ask me. His OBP might be slipping recently, but he still packs a devastating punch with the SLG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theasfl
I was 7 when the Blue Jays won in 93 so all I remember is Carter's HR...too Young to know the medias reaction.
You're young. You also sound well-spoken and mature for your age. I said a couple things back there that I think some other people wouldn't have responded to nearly as well as you did. I see a bright future for ya, kid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theasfl
I dont mean to say that baseball players dont have their nationality taken into account; its evident that nowadays its very prevelent with the World Baseball Classic coming up (an idea I love). Im just stating that its different in cycling, because the teams themselves are from countries and not cities; even though a rider could be from another country.
Yeah, I know. I was just going off on another tangent saying that it could lead to trouble in baseball like what we might be seeing in cycling.
kq76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2012, 01:17 AM   #65
Skipaway
Hall Of Famer
 
Skipaway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Where you live
Posts: 11,017
In the end, it's Americans that doomed Armstrong.
__________________
Jonathan Haidt: Moral reasoning is really just a servant masquerading as a high priest.
Skipaway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2012, 01:27 AM   #66
Le Grande Orange
Hall Of Famer
 
Le Grande Orange's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Up There
Posts: 15,386
Holy thread necromancy, Batman!
Le Grande Orange is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2012, 05:08 AM   #67
Tony M
Global Moderator
 
Tony M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Here
Posts: 6,156
Blog Entries: 3
Apparently USADA are going to strip Armstrong of his moon landing title after convincing Buzz Aldrin to confess that they used oxygen supplements in order to reach their target...
__________________
This signature is intentionally blank
Tony M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2012, 10:51 AM   #68
Rawntu
Bat Boy
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1
some dude, who claims to be the first one to have stepped on the moon, can only be proved in 2015 when indians return back to the moon.
lol
Rawntu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2012, 11:09 PM   #69
MorseMoose
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,023
Blog Entries: 4
Infractions: 1/1 (1)
I read today that if they gave the 2005 Tour de France to the first person NOT connected to doping, they'd have to give it to the 23rd place finisher.

Then again...I saw it on Reddit.
MorseMoose is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:22 AM.

 

Major League and Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of Major League Baseball. Visit MLB.com and MiLB.com.

Officially Licensed Product – MLB Players, Inc.

Out of the Park Baseball is a registered trademark of Out of the Park Developments GmbH & Co. KG

Google Play is a trademark of Google Inc.

Apple, iPhone, iPod touch and iPad are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.

COPYRIGHT © 2023 OUT OF THE PARK DEVELOPMENTS. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

 

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © 2020 Out of the Park Developments