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Old 02-26-2020, 07:18 PM   #41
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It was asked earlier whether I had problems with anything else in the manual. Yes.

Like this on taking a pitch:

The batter will let the pitch go by, even if it is a good pitch. This option is often used when the pitcher is struggling with his control, or if the count is 3-0 or 3-1 and you hope to get a walk.

OK, so what do we know? Pitchers don't have predetermined bad days etc so a pitcher struggling with control is random. Last few pitches performance has no effect on the next pitch.

Secondly we know the outcome of that at bat is already determined. If its going to be a walk, its going to be a walk with or without taking this pitch. So this whole thing is just flavor.

Getting back to the calming issue, it says "try" to calm the pitcher. No statement it works. Seems to me the lack of AI manager visits to the mound show it doesn't. Looks like a flavor feature to me.
Well actually we do not know if P's are programmed to have bad days, it is only our group best guess. Remember the developers have not weighed in on this question and there is no mention in the manual

The outcome is determined in one pitch when you hit "swing" not before. Hitting swing simulates an entire AB. When you hit "take pitch" the AB outcome has not yet been determined. It does allow you to try to get a count to steal on though. Get to 2-0 and the AI is much more likely to not pitch out.

So you're saying they give you the option to "try" something you can't do? How does that even make sense? It is an argument that supports calming is in the game, not one that proves it is not.

Again how do you know the AI managers do not visit the mound? When I do it there is no mention in the pbp only a popup box. If they do, I did say if, and a popup box appeared there would be complaints about having to click through it.

Here's a question for you... since the AI does not have to warm up relievers does that mean when a human does it has no effect?
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Old 02-26-2020, 07:21 PM   #42
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Having to warm up pitchers is a disadvantage for the human manager. There needs to be help for AI against a human. The calming effect would be an advantage for the human manager, and that's not something game designers do.
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Old 02-26-2020, 07:28 PM   #43
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Having to warm up pitchers is a disadvantage for the human manager. There needs to be help for AI against a human. The calming effect would be an advantage for the human manager, and that's not something game designers do.
Except the manual says they did

Posting options for a player to do in a manual that have no effect? Yeah, that is something good developers do not do. If found out how will that go for their reputation? Simply not worth the risk especially in a niche market, with intelligent users, like OOTP.
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Old 02-26-2020, 09:07 PM   #44
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The outcome is determined in one pitch when you hit "swing" not before. Hitting swing simulates an entire AB. When you hit "take pitch" the AB outcome has not yet been determined. It does allow you to try to get a count to steal on though. Get to 2-0 and the AI is much more likely to not pitch out.

OK, so if you're playing pitch by pitch and with three balls select take you're guaranteed to get a strike. That the batter won't swing at. Meaning the take pitch feature doesn't help you get a walk with three balls. Not at all whats implied by the manual, taking advantage of a pitcher who is struggling with control.

Now seriously, if you have all these features that significantly change the performance of players then even with one year recalc and no development and no random talent change historical players won't perform historically. Do you believe that?
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Old 02-26-2020, 09:10 PM   #45
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Except the manual says they did

Posting options for a player to do in a manual that have no effect? Yeah, that is something good developers do not do. If found out how will that go for their reputation? Simply not worth the risk especially in a niche market, with intelligent users, like OOTP.
The warm up feature makes the game harder for the human player. If he doesn't have a RP ready he has to stick with the current one (maybe tired maybe with reduced performance) or put in a new one not warmed up (maybe with reduced performance). So it DOES have an effect but only if the human player screws up.

Now whether its imprecision or a carefully worded statement has yet to be determined, but the manual only says "try" regarding calming a pitcher down. There are flavor of the game elements present. For example,you've stated that except for base runner action, only pushing selecting "swing" for the batter will end the play.

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Old 02-26-2020, 09:35 PM   #46
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Here's another flavor item. AI managers in default select lineups based x% on ratings, y% on current year performance,. z% on last year performance. Yet players don't perform based on current or previous performance. They perform based on ratings.
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Old 02-26-2020, 09:36 PM   #47
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The Terrible Towel doesn't work. Its just flavor. But its still fun to have one.
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Old 02-26-2020, 10:58 PM   #48
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[I]

OK, so if you're playing pitch by pitch and with three balls select take you're guaranteed to get a strike. That the batter won't swing at. Meaning the take pitch feature doesn't help you get a walk with three balls. Not at all whats implied by the manual, taking advantage of a pitcher who is struggling with control.
And yet I've drawn walks in my game by hitting the "take pitch". How could that be if I can't get a 4th ball?
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Old 02-26-2020, 11:43 PM   #49
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For example,you've stated that except for base runner action, only pushing selecting "swing" for the batter will end the play.
No, I said hitting swing will simulate an entire AB in one pitch mode. You can also end a play by hitting take, getting 4 balls, and drawing a BB. Hitting take does not use the predetermined pitches from the entire AB that swing would have produced. It takes the pitches one at a time just like pitch by pitch and finishes the AB with swing, on a 3-2 count, unless you have already drawn a BB. There have been threads in the past complaining "take" makes it too easy to draw a BB and games the system. How could that be if AB's are predetermined?

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The outcome is determined in one pitch when you hit "swing" not before. Hitting swing simulates an entire AB. When you hit "take pitch" the AB outcome has not yet been determined. It does allow you to try to get a count to steal on though. Get to 2-0 and the AI is much more likely to not pitch out.

OK, so if you're playing pitch by pitch and with three balls select take you're guaranteed to get a strike. That the batter won't swing at. Meaning the take pitch feature doesn't help you get a walk with three balls. Not at all whats implied by the manual, taking advantage of a pitcher who is struggling with control.

Now seriously, if you have all these features that significantly change the performance of players then even with one year recalc and no development and no random talent change historical players won't perform historically. Do you believe that?
Well first things first... If you have a batter with 3 balls take a pitch he will get a strike he won't swing at? Well yeah he won't swing, you told him to take

The AB is not predetermined in pitch by pitch, it's taken one pitch at a time. That's why it is pitch by pitch. You say you can't take a pitch on 3-0 and get a walk because it's fluff the AB is predetermined. You can never get a BB in p by p with a 3-0 count? Be careful when you say never, it usually comes back with a good size bite What happens if you bunt with 2 strikes in pitch by pitch? Did the AI know you were going to do that because the AB is predetermined? How does the AI handle bunting in any AB in pitch by pitch if said AB is predetermined?

Who said any of these things SIGNIFICANTLY change performance? None of these things significantly change anything, that is why even with these choices players still perform as they should.
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Old 02-26-2020, 11:50 PM   #50
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Uhhh... you're the one who said you can't get a conclusion to a plate appearance without selecting swing.
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Old 02-26-2020, 11:55 PM   #51
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"The AB is not predetermined in pitch by pitch, it's taken one pitch at a time."

Uh, no. Its been discussed on the board. Its why the take pitch strategy can be used to wear out a pitching staff over a couple of games. Because if the AB is to end with a ball in play it can't happen until there are three balls where a batter can't automatically take
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Old 02-27-2020, 12:01 AM   #52
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Here's another flavor item. AI managers in default select lineups based x% on ratings, y% on current year performance,. z% on last year performance. Yet players don't perform based on current or previous performance. They perform based on ratings.
What does one have to do with the other? Yes, they perform based on ratings. And yes the AI manager on default does not use just ratings to select his lineup. He also uses the player's stats based on the previous years as you noted. This was done, as an option, because users asked for it. IE some human players use a mix of both ratings and stats or, play stats only, and requested Markus make an option for the AI to do the same.

Another reason users asked for this was if the AI goes strictly ratings you might have a guy having a monster year, take a ratings hit in August, and be benched for a guy that now has higher ratings. Users complained this took away from realism when an established star player, having a good year, with OPS of .900+ was suddenly benched for a guy with only 125 career ABs and .700 OPS. Sure the star player was now rated lower than the bench player but IRL how would a manager know this so quickly ? Well he wouldn't but, the OOTP AI manager knows it for a fact the day it happened. Still seem like fluff?

At least since it's default I believe one has the option to make the AI only use ratings? I think as simple as going 100% ratings and 0 % on stats.
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Old 02-27-2020, 08:28 PM   #53
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" if the AI goes strictly ratings you might have a guy having a monster year, take a ratings hit in August, and be benched for a guy that now has higher ratings. Users complained this took away from realism when an established star player, having a good year, with OPS of .900+ was suddenly benched for a guy with only 125 career ABs and .700 OPS."


Yes, you're right, things are done in the game for flavor. So why reject out of hand the idea mound visits and taking pitches could be flavor?
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Old 02-27-2020, 09:35 PM   #54
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The Terrible Towel doesn't work. Its just flavor. But its still fun to have one.

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