Home | Webstore
Latest News: OOTP 25 Available - FHM 10 Available - OOTP Go! Available

Out of the Park Baseball 25 Buy Now!

  

Go Back   OOTP Developments Forums > Prior Versions of Our Games > Out of the Park Baseball 14 > OOTP 14 - General Discussions

OOTP 14 - General Discussions Discuss the new 2013 version of Out of the Park Baseball here!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-06-2013, 05:52 PM   #21
Bluenoser
Hall Of Famer
 
Bluenoser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In The Moment
Posts: 13,659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orcin View Post
In my opinion, the skill ratings are aligned with the star ratings, so moot point.
You might want to have a quick look at this:

Out of the Park Baseball Manual


I get what you're saying about draft pools and the amount of good potential players being available. However, draft classes reflect the talent level in your league to a certain extent. It won't create a lot of high potential players if your league has a lot already. It tries to keep a competitive balance.

At least that's the way Markus explained a few versions ago.


So some years you see more high potential players than others. I'm not sure if you are seeing this or not, but I have found it to be pretty much along these lines.


I suppose one way to add more "fun" to the draft would be to have the game create more high potential players, but then have more, or less, fail/succeed, depending on league talent over-all.
Bluenoser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 05:55 PM   #22
Orcin
Hall Of Famer
 
Orcin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 9,798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenoser View Post
I suppose one way to add more "fun" to the draft would be to have the game create more high potential players, but then have more, or less, fail/succeed, depending on league talent over-all.

Exactly.
Orcin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 06:02 PM   #23
BIG17EASY
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenoser View Post
I suppose one way to add more "fun" to the draft would be to have the game create more high potential players, but then have more, or less, fail/succeed, depending on league talent over-all.
Isn't that basically the previous OOTP model that Markus changed? I agree that the experience of drafting players is more fun if there are a lot of high potential guys. But it's no fun to watch them flame out just to keep the competitive balance in the league. You're basically just getting some instant gratification in exchange for long-term disappointment. At least in the current draft pool model, there's some hope that you draft a speedy outfielder in the 11th round and maybe he'll develop enough at the plate to be a decent player. I'd much rather that than watch my four-star potential draftee flame out on a somewhat regular basis.
BIG17EASY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 06:06 PM   #24
Bluenoser
Hall Of Famer
 
Bluenoser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In The Moment
Posts: 13,659
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG17EASY View Post
Isn't that basically the previous OOTP model that Markus changed? I agree that the experience of drafting players is more fun if there are a lot of high potential guys. But it's no fun to watch them flame out just to keep the competitive balance in the league. You're basically just getting some instant gratification in exchange for long-term disappointment. At least in the current draft pool model, there's some hope that you draft a speedy outfielder in the 11th round and maybe he'll develop enough at the plate to be a decent player. I'd much rather that than watch my four-star potential draftee flame out on a somewhat regular basis.

Not sure how the old model worked, but I agree with you, I like the way it works now very much.

Just throwing that out there as a suggestion for the people who aren't happy with the current system.
Bluenoser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 06:08 PM   #25
BIG17EASY
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenoser View Post
Not sure how the old model worked, but I agree with you, I like the way it works now very much.

Just throwing that out there as a suggestion for the people who aren't happy with the current system.
Gotcha. I think that's the main reason they aren't happy -- they were used to seeing many more high potential guys regardless of how many of them actually realized that potential. It was a shock to me at first, but now that I see how it works in the long run, I prefer this much better.
BIG17EASY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 06:22 PM   #26
Bluenoser
Hall Of Famer
 
Bluenoser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In The Moment
Posts: 13,659
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG17EASY View Post
Gotcha. I think that's the main reason they aren't happy -- they were used to seeing many more high potential guys regardless of how many of them actually realized that potential. It was a shock to me at first, but now that I see how it works in the long run, I prefer this much better.
Yep, one the biggest things I like about the new model is I don't see sudden surges/declines in things like league Avg, Era etc because all of a sudden I've got a lot of talent in my league or very little.

I know I can adjust modifiers to fix that, but I shouldn't have to. Once I've found modifiers I'm happy with, I should be able to leave them alone.

The least amount of fun for me out of anything is when I have an imbalanced league stats wise. I can't stand to have a lot of power hitters, or a lot of base stealers, or a lot of strike out kings, or a 20 team league where they all have a stud at 2B.
Bluenoser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 06:30 PM   #27
Orcin
Hall Of Famer
 
Orcin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 9,798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenoser View Post
Yep, one the biggest things I like about the new model is I don't see sudden surges/declines in things like league Avg, Era etc because all of a sudden I've got a lot of talent in my league or very little.

I know I can adjust modifiers to fix that, but I shouldn't have to. Once I've found modifiers I'm happy with, I should be able to leave them alone.

The least amount of fun for me out of anything is when I have an imbalanced league stats wise. I can't stand to have a lot of power hitters, or a lot of base stealers, or a lot of strike out kings, or a 20 team league where they all have a stud at 2B.

Just for the record, I ran 25 years of my fictional dynasty using version 11/12, and I never had these fluctuations. I never changed the modifiers. The old system worked fine.

You like green, I like blue. Both colors work fine. Neither color is wrong.
Orcin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 06:33 PM   #28
Bluenoser
Hall Of Famer
 
Bluenoser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In The Moment
Posts: 13,659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orcin View Post
Just for the record, I ran 25 years of my fictional dynasty using version 11/12, and I never had these fluctuations. I never changed the modifiers. The old system worked fine.

You like green, I like blue. Both colors work fine. Neither color is wrong.
All I'm trying to do is point out how it works now. I liked the old system too, just happen to like the new one better. And I didn't say the old system created imbalance either.

I like green and blue.

You only like blue. That's your loss, not mine.

Last edited by Bluenoser; 11-06-2013 at 06:49 PM.
Bluenoser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 06:47 PM   #29
Honorable_Pawn
Hall Of Famer
 
Honorable_Pawn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 6,407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenoser View Post

The other thing, OOTP is designed to keep competitive balance. If your league starts to get too much top end talent over-all, then draft classes will be weaker. Same thing the other way. The game will always try to keep that competitive balance. No league should be over-run with superstars, or over-run with duds.
Try to tell this "common knowledge" to the folks of the GUBA
__________________
PBA Quickstart for OOTP
Background Images Collection

All PBA games broadcast live on Steam.
Honorable_Pawn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 06:49 PM   #30
injury log
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 9,162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orcin View Post
The old system worked fine.
No, it demonstrably did not "work fine", at least if you compared OOTP to real life baseball, using any number of benchmarks. The success rate of late round picks, the preponderance of recent draftees on top prospect lists - OOTP was way, way off before.

And I think BIGEASY made the most important point in this thread. If you have a draft class full of high potential players, the game needs to kill most of them off later on. So maybe draft day is more fun, but it's a lot less fun watching what happens to your picks as the seasons roll by.

Lastly, with so many variables that influence the appearance of a draft class, I often wonder in threads like this if people are even talking about the same things. Sometimes it's the league setup someone uses, not the OOTP draft model, that is responsible for a weak-looking draft class. So it would be helpful if people mentioned whether they use feeders or an auto-generated draft class, whether scouting is on, whether their scout 'favors tools' or 'favors ability', what scouting accuracy is used, if the league is using the MLB roster set or is purely fictional, and how many years the league has been running. The star rating is based on a comparison with the existing players in your league, so if the ratings of your established big leaguers are inflated for some reason, that will affect the appearance of your draft class as well.
injury log is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 06:50 PM   #31
Orcin
Hall Of Famer
 
Orcin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 9,798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenoser View Post
All I'm trying to do is point out how it works now. I liked the old system too, just happen to like the new one better.

I like green and blue.

You only like blue. That's your loss, not mine.

Not true. I like the new system too. If not, I would have stopped playing by now. But I liked the old one better.
Orcin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 06:57 PM   #32
Orcin
Hall Of Famer
 
Orcin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 9,798
Quote:
Originally Posted by injury log View Post
No, it demonstrably did not "work fine", at least if you compared OOTP to real life baseball, using any number of benchmarks. The success rate of late round picks, the preponderance of recent draftees on top prospect lists - OOTP was way, way off before.

And I think BIGEASY made the most important point in this thread. If you have a draft class full of high potential players, the game needs to kill most of them off later on. So maybe draft day is more fun, but it's a lot less fun watching what happens to your picks as the seasons roll by.

Lastly, with so many variables that influence the appearance of a draft class, I often wonder in threads like this if people are even talking about the same things. Sometimes it's the league setup someone uses, not the OOTP draft model, that is responsible for a weak-looking draft class. So it would be helpful if people mentioned whether they use feeders or an auto-generated draft class, whether scouting is on, whether their scout 'favors tools' or 'favors ability', what scouting accuracy is used, if the league is using the MLB roster set or is purely fictional, and how many years the league has been running. The star rating is based on a comparison with the existing players in your league, so if the ratings of your established big leaguers are inflated for some reason, that will affect the appearance of your draft class as well.

You can click on the link in my signature and read the 80+ pages of posts about the league using the old method. Let me know in a week or two what you think. I played it, so I already know. It worked fine in terms of providing competitive balance and realistic results. In fact, you can find 20 years of league totals on page 1. They don't look out of whack to me.

The old method wasn't perfect either. I admit that I was frustrated from time to time when too many prospects flamed out. But no more frustrated than I am now looking at a draft class containing 90% 0-WAR players.

P.S. To the OP... see what I mean? I swear I will get out of this thread before page 18. Really I will.
Orcin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 06:57 PM   #33
The Wolf
Hall Of Famer
 
The Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: All alone
Posts: 12,612
Infractions: 0/1 (1)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orcin View Post
The difference is that the draft is no longer fun. It's just a grab-bag of 1-star players with no reason to choose one over another. I don't spend any time looking at draft prospects now, and I just let the scout auto-draft. I trade for my prospects now.
^ This, exactly.
__________________
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
The Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 06:59 PM   #34
The Wolf
Hall Of Famer
 
The Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: All alone
Posts: 12,612
Infractions: 0/1 (1)
I used to have a lot of fun working the draft. Now it's auto draft after round 2. Bah.
__________________
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
The Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 08:22 PM   #35
injury log
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 9,162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orcin View Post
You can click on the link in my signature and read the 80+ pages of posts about the league using the old method. Let me know in a week or two what you think. I played it, so I already know. It worked fine in terms of providing competitive balance and realistic results. In fact, you can find 20 years of league totals on page 1. They don't look out of whack to me.
Your league totals have almost nothing to do with the realism of the draft, so I don't understand your point. I've compared real life drafts and OOTP drafts on beta several times over the past few years, and if you're on the beta forum you can read those comparisons. If in your 80 page threads you've done the same, give me a link and I'll read it, but I'm not going to look at that thread otherwise.

I have no interest in trying to persuade anyone to find one draft model more fun than another. The only claim in this thread I object to is the claim that OOTP13's draft model was "fine" or "realistic". It demonstrably was not.
injury log is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 09:00 PM   #36
Orcin
Hall Of Famer
 
Orcin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 9,798
Quote:
Originally Posted by injury log View Post
I've compared real life drafts and OOTP drafts on beta several times over the past few years, and if you're on the beta forum you can read those comparisons. If in your 80 page threads you've done the same, give me a link and I'll read it, but I'm not going to look at that thread otherwise.
I am not here to test the game. I am here to play it.
Orcin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 09:27 PM   #37
The Wolf
Hall Of Famer
 
The Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: All alone
Posts: 12,612
Infractions: 0/1 (1)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orcin View Post
I am not here to test the game. I am here to play it.
And hopefully to enjoy doing so!
__________________
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
The Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 09:37 PM   #38
MrMuse
Minors (Double A)
 
MrMuse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Wales, UK
Posts: 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slammer View Post
I'm only in my first season of my first time playing this game, so take this all with a grain of salt. However, I just completed my first draft and noticed a few annoying things such as:
  • Very few players with high potential (according to scout)
  • Completely differing star ratings between OSA and scout
  • Recommended players being worse than other players remaining on the board
  • Recommended players are usually the next pick if you don't pick them
After noticing that, and not enjoying the draft a whole lot, I found threads like this and this. It appears many people are upset with the draft, or at least were initially. I also noticed that a lot of these threads haven't seen posts in a while.

So what I want to know is, from people who have played out a lot of seasons, did the drafts pan out? Do enough quality players come out of it? Did the league go to ****? Was there an awkward transition between regen players and existing players until the last real player retired?
1. no comment
2. OSA evaluation accuracy is governed by your overall scouting accuracy as altered in game preferences whilst your individual scout accuracy is based on his stats. So unless you have made overall scouting "legendary" (for example) a scout with a "legendary" rating will be more accurate than the overall OSA regarding players that fall inside whatever his legendary stat covers.
3. I partly agree but you have to factor in that the recommendation is also based on projected cost/difficulty of acquiring said prospects in the signing phase.
4. I have not seen this to be the case.

Your final question is impossible to answer as whether or not a player reaches his perceived potential will be based on how you have played him (and how often his development is hampered with injury). If a one-star player were always definitely going to be a five star player (if that is what his potential says) it wouldn't be called "potential" it would be called something like "future rating".

If you make your scout legendary in all scouting areas by editing him in commissioner mode and then ask him to make reports on individual draft players once the draft pool has been published (regardless of what their star ratings say) then you will have a MUCH better idea of what it is you are actually trying to pick. Moreover, the scout reports are often entertaining with comments such as "he definitely has a future in MLB - in the commentary box" and "he fields like his glove is tied on backwards".

Last edited by MrMuse; 11-06-2013 at 09:55 PM.
MrMuse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 09:46 PM   #39
Tyler87898
All Star Reserve
 
Tyler87898's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 791
I find the draft more fun knowing that my top pick(s) won't flame out in 6 months. I don't autodraft after the 2nd round, I usually pick to the 8-10 round looking at players who have 1 or 2 good tools that could maybe become decent big leaguers, like others have said. I like that better. Obviously we all have an opinion and we should respect everybodies, it's no use trying to change someone's mind. I don't know if what I suggested before would be possible (having an option to select between the different types of drafts), but if it is, it seems like a good idea. I don't know if it would work with the revamped player development, so you might have to choose between each type of draft pool AND development system, so I don't know if the idea could work...
Tyler87898 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 09:46 PM   #40
injury log
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 9,162
There are, incidentally, a lot of things you can do that will make your draft classes look anywhere from slightly better to a lot better:

- hire a scout who "highly favours tools"
- reduce scouting accuracy
- increase the size of your draft pool
- reduce the amount of talent entering your league from other sources
- reduce the talent level of your top level league (by increasing injury frequency or aging rates or whatever)

You can also try drafting solely based on the auto-generated HS/College stats, and not by ratings. You'll still be able to draft successfully, but you won't know at what point in the draft you've started picking 0.5-star players.
injury log is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
draft, potential, ratings, scouting

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:06 PM.

 

Major League and Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of Major League Baseball. Visit MLB.com and MiLB.com.

Officially Licensed Product – MLB Players, Inc.

Out of the Park Baseball is a registered trademark of Out of the Park Developments GmbH & Co. KG

Google Play is a trademark of Google Inc.

Apple, iPhone, iPod touch and iPad are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.

COPYRIGHT © 2023 OUT OF THE PARK DEVELOPMENTS. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

 

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © 2020 Out of the Park Developments