Looking For "Friends" to join "Our League".

[Charlatan]

Freeloaders Jump to Top In Diamond With Perfect Month

The Virginia Freeloaders played to perfection in April to lead the Diamond OL standings. However, Ozark and Motown also started the season strong and are nipping on the Freeloaders' heels.

[Magus978]

I'll give it until tomorrow, but I think it's almost time to accept that Blitzkrieg just doesn't have what it takes to win at this level, and that last week's playoff appearance was a complete fluke.

Won't be getting that perfect pip to complete the set anytime soon.

[allenciox]

I had some time on my hands over weekend so decided to track average WAR, average PP earned per year, etc. on all the players on my roster for each of my teams. Here is the result for my Southpaws:

Batters:

			
Player        OVR	POS	WAR	OPS+	pp/year	AH price
Smoky Burgess	86	C	3.8	116	248	14000
Carlton Fisk	89	C	1.3	78	61	5500
Rod Carew	87	1B	2.8	123	729	12000
Jose Reyes	73	1B	0.6	101	133	1200
Wade Boggs	89	2B	2.9	104	54	11000
Jim Gilliam	83	2B,SS	2.9	90	77	10000
Arky Vaughan	97	3B	4.1	138	1528	42700
Johnny Pesky	84	SS	2.5	85	105	16000
Darin Erstad	84	LF	4.6	108	151	7400
Cy Seymour	97	LF,RF	5.2	127	604	67000
Lenny Dykstra	91	CF	6.2	105	100	23000
Tony Gwynn	76	DH	1.8	117	202	4300
Al Kaline	84	RF,CF	2.5	88	66	7200
Carl Yastremski	100	RF,DH	4.0	145	1050	83000
Totals	     87.1		3.4	109	5109	304300

Pitchers:

			
Player	        OVR	POS	WAR	ERA+	pp/year	AH price
Hal Newhouser	97	SP	3.8	111	724	47000
Clayton Kershaw	97	SP	3.3	105	1134	38500
CC Sabathia	94	SP	3.2	115	731	29500
Eddie Plank	94	SP	2.7	94	173	20000
Lefty Gomez	97	SP	2.8	111	1101	30800
Bruce Sutter	89	RP	4.5	152	291	12000
Pedro Borbon	80	RP	0.8	107	20	4000
Hersh Freeman	77	RP	1.6	99	18	2000
Dennis Eckersly	89	RP	2.3	138	146	9500
Bret Saberhagen	93	RP	0.6	112	41	17000
Steve Howe	77	RP	0.0	101	10	1050
Totals	      89.4		2.3	113.2	4389	211350

For batters, average WAR was calculated by normalizing to 600 PA/year, for pitchers, average WAR was calculated by normalizing to 200 IP/year. So, relievers and substitutes show higher WAR than they actually got. This was averaging across all seasons in perfect league, but not before they got to perfect. Since this covers a ten-year span, this eases out the year-to-year variations..

Takeaways: there is definitely a pretty strong correlation between average WAR and PP/year but not perfect. For example, Arky Vaughan, who is a good hitter and a nonspectacularly fielding 3B, led all players in PP earned per year, but is only the fourth most expensive player on roster, and is only fifth in average WAR.

On the other hand, Lenny Dykstra leads my team in average WAR but only has 100 pp earned per year. I think, in general, this is the case for great fielders who are average or worse at the plate --- Pesky, Gilliam, and Kaline are other good fielders who suck at earning PP.

Inerestingly, the strongest correlation is between pitcher cost on AH and average WAR for the starting pitchers. The order between average WAR and average price for the starting pitchers is exactly the same.

If people find this interesting, I will post the same information about the Energizer Bunnies (and even possibly, the Caspers, though they are not an OL team).

One interesting tidbit: Since I had some pack luck with this team, the overall AH value of my roster is just over 500,000 PP. For my other two teams, it is closer to 300,000 PP.

[Charlatan]

Interesting analysis. I track my batters WAR values from year to year but for pitchers I use FIP- since I feel that WAR undervalues relievers, and I want to see if a pitcher is doing well independent of their usage (and now that I wrote this down, I realize WAR definitely has a usage component, but I'm not aware of another stat that shows the value of defense like WAR does).

I feel like good fielding teams receive fewer PP than good hitting teams due to the lack of defense-oriented PP achievements. Annandale has always been starved for PP, while my other teams have done really well (factoring out the windfalls those teams have gotten).

That was one reason I changed Annandale from defense-first to a more hitting oriented team for a couple of seasons. But I didn't enjoy it, so I switched back, thinking that if I just got better hitters who were also good fielders that they'd do better (brilliant idea, eh?). They *have* done better but still it pales in comparison to my other teams.

I guess your analysis could point out what types of players are most efficient at generating PP?

[allenciox]

Yes, so if you look at the table, my SPs with the highest stuff get the most PPs, but don't necessarily have the highest WAR. For batters, as you mention, it is the best hitters generally that get the most PP. Defensive appears to have almost no effect for PP accumulation. For pitchers, for all my teams, whoever is my designated closer gets the majority of PPs for the relievers.

[stl jason]

yeah, unless you're generating 6+ double plays a game, or racking up multiple outfield assists in a single game, there aren't a lot of defense oriented PP awards.... it's better than it was in v19, but still could use some improvements

[QuantaCondor]

Originally Posted by Magus978

I'll give it until tomorrow, but I think it's almost time to accept that Blitzkrieg just doesn't have what it takes to win at this level, and that last week's playoff appearance was a complete fluke.

Won't be getting that perfect pip to complete the set anytime soon.

Perfect titles are an entirely different beast than anything before it. This is the endgame; you gotta pull out all the stops here. You must have a good team composition and strategy for the season AND a cohesive playoff strategy, even to the point of having some playoff roster-specific players to counter e.g. righty or lefty strategies. It's hard, but possible.

One thing I'd recommend is either going all in on a particular park factor handedness gimmick (righty or lefty), or making HEAVY use of platoons. You want to make sure that you roll out a squad of righty killers against righties and lefty killers against lefties (with the former being more important to tackle during the season and the latter during the playoffs).

You also need to form a distinct plan for how you're shutting down your opponents. Is lefty CON an issue? Or maybe righty HRs? Do you think your team has higher GAP/CON than most, or smaller? Do you want to minimize HRs or maximize them? Which benefits your unique offense the most?

There are lots of ways to answer these team building questions, with the lefty strategy probably requiring the least amount of effort (but somewhat less effective now), but it's up to you as to how you want to approach them.

[OMGPuppies]

As you guys predicted, in Perfect, the AC West is brutally competitive.

[OMGPuppies]

Originally Posted by QuantaCondor

Perfect titles are an entirely different beast than anything before it. This is the endgame; you gotta pull out all the stops here. You must have a good team composition and strategy for the season AND a cohesive playoff strategy, even to the point of having some playoff roster-specific players to counter e.g. righty or lefty strategies. It's hard, but possible.

One thing I'd recommend is either going all in on a particular park factor handedness gimmick (righty or lefty), or making HEAVY use of platoons. You want to make sure that you roll out a squad of righty killers against righties and lefty killers against lefties (with the former being more important to tackle during the season and the latter during the playoffs).

You also need to form a distinct plan for how you're shutting down your opponents. Is lefty CON an issue? Or maybe righty HRs? Do you think your team has higher GAP/CON than most, or smaller? Do you want to minimize HRs or maximize them? Which benefits your unique offense the most?

There are lots of ways to answer these team building questions, with the lefty strategy probably requiring the least amount of effort (but somewhat less effective now), but it's up to you as to how you want to approach them.

Seems like you need to carry extra guys to call up for specific matchups in the playoffs.

[Argonaut]

As a F2P player in Perfect, I think you also need some luck in your pack pulls (especially if you do missions that reward Diamond Packs). You can get by with ~Gold position players and Gold/Silver relievers, but a strong team at Perfect needs to spend over 100k PP on its starting rotation.

My Cowboys have never had a good pack pull, so they've ended up way behind my other teams in PP value despite my starting them a few weeks earlier. Vikings made the Perfect Series twice, mostly due to my 99 Walter Johnson pull that allowed me to build up a good rotation.

You have to be lucky to be good. Or is it you have to be good to be lucky?

[OMGPuppies]

Originally Posted by allenciox

I had some time on my hands over weekend so decided to track average WAR, average PP earned per year, etc. on all the players on my roster for each of my teams. Here is the result for my Southpaws:

Batters:

			
Player        OVR	POS	WAR	OPS+	pp/year	AH price
Smoky Burgess	86	C	3.8	116	248	14000
Carlton Fisk	89	C	1.3	78	61	5500
Rod Carew	87	1B	2.8	123	729	12000
Jose Reyes	73	1B	0.6	101	133	1200
Wade Boggs	89	2B	2.9	104	54	11000
Jim Gilliam	83	2B,SS	2.9	90	77	10000
Arky Vaughan	97	3B	4.1	138	1528	42700
Johnny Pesky	84	SS	2.5	85	105	16000
Darin Erstad	84	LF	4.6	108	151	7400
Cy Seymour	97	LF,RF	5.2	127	604	67000
Lenny Dykstra	91	CF	6.2	105	100	23000
Tony Gwynn	76	DH	1.8	117	202	4300
Al Kaline	84	RF,CF	2.5	88	66	7200
Carl Yastremski	100	RF,DH	4.0	145	1050	83000
Totals	     87.1		3.4	109	5109	304300

Pitchers:

			
Player	        OVR	POS	WAR	ERA+	pp/year	AH price
Hal Newhouser	97	SP	3.8	111	724	47000
Clayton Kershaw	97	SP	3.3	105	1134	38500
CC Sabathia	94	SP	3.2	115	731	29500
Eddie Plank	94	SP	2.7	94	173	20000
Lefty Gomez	97	SP	2.8	111	1101	30800
Bruce Sutter	89	RP	4.5	152	291	12000
Pedro Borbon	80	RP	0.8	107	20	4000
Hersh Freeman	77	RP	1.6	99	18	2000
Dennis Eckersly	89	RP	2.3	138	146	9500
Bret Saberhagen	93	RP	0.6	112	41	17000
Steve Howe	77	RP	0.0	101	10	1050
Totals	      89.4		2.3	113.2	4389	211350

For batters, average WAR was calculated by normalizing to 600 PA/year, for pitchers, average WAR was calculated by normalizing to 200 IP/year. So, relievers and substitutes show higher WAR than they actually got. This was averaging across all seasons in perfect league, but not before they got to perfect. Since this covers a ten-year span, this eases out the year-to-year variations..

Takeaways: there is definitely a pretty strong correlation between average WAR and PP/year but not perfect. For example, Arky Vaughan, who is a good hitter and a nonspectacularly fielding 3B, led all players in PP earned per year, but is only the fourth most expensive player on roster, and is only fifth in average WAR.

On the other hand, Lenny Dykstra leads my team in average WAR but only has 100 pp earned per year. I think, in general, this is the case for great fielders who are average or worse at the plate --- Pesky, Gilliam, and Kaline are other good fielders who suck at earning PP.

Inerestingly, the strongest correlation is between pitcher cost on AH and average WAR for the starting pitchers. The order between average WAR and average price for the starting pitchers is exactly the same.

If people find this interesting, I will post the same information about the Energizer Bunnies (and even possibly, the Caspers, though they are not an OL team).

One interesting tidbit: Since I had some pack luck with this team, the overall AH value of my roster is just over 500,000 PP. For my other two teams, it is closer to 300,000 PP.

You sure are a smart shopper. Looks like you got Black Friday deals on a bunch of those guys.

[QuantaCondor]

Originally Posted by allenciox

One interesting tidbit: Since I had some pack luck with this team, the overall AH value of my roster is just over 500,000 PP. For my other two teams, it is closer to 300,000 PP.

I was curious what the typical PP value of a WS winning OL team is. As far as I know there are only 4 of them, accounting for 5 WS titles. In order of recency:

Bold Strategy Cottons (2040) (anti-lefties)
Southern Southpaws (2039) (lefties)
Harlem Hatchets (2038) (balanced)
California Quantum Condors (2037) (lefties)
Bold Strategy Cottons (2032) (max contact, min power)

The Fargo victory this past season broke a 4-year stretch of OL titles, interestingly. Anyway, the PP value of these teams, currently (under my best estimates):

================================================== ================================================== ==========

BOLD STRATEGY COTTONS:
Pitching:
SP 96 Mussina (45k) [Locked]
SP 94 CC Sabathia (30k)
SP 89 Greg Maddux (16k)
SP 96 Mort Cooper (20k)

RP 77 Steve Howe (1k)
RP 88 Hong-Chih Kuo (9k)
RP 90 Pedro Borbon (4k)
RP 89 Rollie Fingers (10k)
RP 77 Hersh Freeman (2k)
SP 85 Brett Anderson (3k)
SP 89 Dizzy Dean (8k)

PITCHING: 148k [45k locked]
The Cottons post among the best ERAs in the league every year since their return from Diamond in 2039, which I 100% credit the park factors for and not this pitching staff. Anyway, know that 150k is enough to buy a competent pitching staff if your park factors are right.

Batting:
C 95 Darrell Porter (21k)
1B 97 Norm Cash (20k)
2B 96 Cal Ripken Jr (30k) [Locked]
3B 97 Scott Rolen (30k)
SS 89 Joe Cronin (15k) [Locked]
LF 94 Rickey Henderson (30k?) [Locked]
CF 91 Lenny Dykstra (21k)
RF 98 Carl Yastzemski (68k)
DH 89 Willie McCovey (5k)

1B 86 Dick Allen (2k)
DH 87 Harry Heilmann (7k)
SS 98 Francisco Lindor (5k)
RF 86 Magglio Ordonez (4k)
C 89 Mike Stanley (2k)

BATTING: 250k [105k locked]
I definitely don't think you need 250k for a competitive batting lineup. I am surprised that it costs this much, it is by no means a dominant lineup. But there are a lot of players here, and I think any non lefty/righty team needs at least 4 backup fielders and at least 3 platoons.

TOTAL: 398k [150k locked].
For context, I've squeezed maybe 35k of value from the locked players and I've seen about 25k in value gain from recent sets (Porter, Yaz), so the true cost of the team is closer to 340k. I think ~250k+ is what you need to be competitive, roughly.

================================================== ====

PLAYERS ON BOTH WS TEAMS:
85 Anderson
96 Cooper
89 Maddux
96 Mussina
80 Borbon
77 Freeman
77 Howe

86 Magglio
98 Yaz
94 Rickey
89 Cronin
87 Lindor
86 Allen
95 Porter

================================================== ================================================== ==========

HARLEM HATCHETS:
Pitching:
SP 100 Big Walt (450k?)
SP 100 Nolan Ryan (60k?)
SP 94 Reuschel (25k?)
SP 95 Liriano (28k)
SP 92 Niekro (20k?)

RP 96 Papelbon (30k?)
RP 77 Tekulve (1k)
RP 91 Terry Forster (20k?)
SP 92 Chris Short (20k?)
SP 88 Steve Carlton (5k?)
SP 89 Maddux (18k)
SP 91 Yovani Gallardo (10k)

PITCHING: 687k
Yowza. That is an enormous investing in starting pitching (mostly Big Walt, but the bullpen of SPs and the rest of the rotation is pretty good too). Good enough for an average ERA of about 4 for the past 4 years, which is roughly 8th or so in the league.

Batting:
RF 93 Bernie Carbo (7k)
CF 90 Andrew McCutchen (15k?)
LF 98 Carl Yastrzemski (68k)
SS 93 Troy Tulowitski (17k)
3B 96 Eddie Mathews (25k?)
2B 88 Frankie Frisch (5k)
1B 69 Wes Parker (100)
DH 95 Willie Stargell (15k?)
C 69 Mike Lavalliere (1k)

RF 95 Aaron Judge (30k?)
CF 82 Kevin McReynolds (2k)
SS 89 Al Dark (2k?)
C 89 Carlton Fisk (10k)

BATTING: 197k
This is mostly due to 98 Yaz, who got a 20k boost due to the Red Sox collection, but still, almost 200k. This offense also ranks near the bottom of the league, usually 25th or worse.

TOTAL: 884k
About half of this is Big Walt, which is kind of hilarious. He generates roughly 7k PP per year alone for Harlem, which is also hilarious (that's 140k since being pulled near the beginning of the game). So it's like a weird investment, though who knows if that's better all in one place vs. spread over several players. Still, Harlem clearly has the most expensive pitching staff of the winners, likely the most expensive one in the league as well, because of him.

================================================== ================================================== ==========

CALIFORNIA QUANTUM CONDORS:

Pitching:
SP 94 Kershaw (30k)
SP 94 CC Sabathia (30k)
SP 94 Eddie Plank (22k)
SP 85 Brett Anderson (3k)

RP 90 Pedro Borbon (4k)
RP 89 Rollie Fingers (10k)
RP 84 Gene Garber (4k) [Locked]
RP 77 Hersh Freeman (2k)
RP 77 Steve Howe (1k)
RP 80 Tom Burgmeier (2k)
SP 82 Rick Reuschel (2k)
SP 88 Claude Passeau (3k)

PITCHING: 113k [4k locked]
Easily, easily the cheapest staff so far. Lefty SPs are just dominant in the playoffs against opposing lefty teams, which is the reason why the Condors had success in their WS title.

Batting:
RF 98 Yaz (68k) [Locked]
CF 91 Lenny Dykstra (23k)
LF 84 Erstad (7k)
SS 84 Pesky (17k)
3B 89 Boggs (10k)
2B 95 Gehringer (30k) (did not have this for the WS, used 5k 87 Lindor)
1B 87 Rod Carew (13k)
DH 95 Votto (22k) (did not have, used 5k 89 McCovey for WS)
C 86 Smoky Burgess (14k)

DH 87 Harry Heilmann (7k)
CF 78 Devon White (1k)
SS 89 Joe Cronin (15k) [Locked]
C 69 Mike Lavalliere (1k)

BATTING: 228k [83k locked]
Like the Southpaws, this team invests more heavily in batting than pitching. I think lefty teams have this luxury moreso than others, since even average lefty pitching can really be shut down against other lefty teams. Against righties we just use our park factors. But batting? We need to commit heavily to combat both those lefty staffs as well as the usual RHPs.

TOTAL: 341k [87k locked]
I probably squeezed 50k in value from the locked players, plus there are roughly 35k in value gains from recent sets alone (Pesky, Yaz, etc.), so the price I paid was closer to about 250k. This was the cheapest of the teams that won a WS, but I think it's cheaper to go all in on lefties with a chance at success than any other strategy because it's just such an all-in gameplan that magnifies the talents of every player on your roster. Even relatively average players become superstars here.

================================================== ================================================== ==========

So, restating the list:
398k, Bold Strategy Cottons (2040) (anti-lefties)
516k, Southern Southpaws (2039) (lefties)
884k, Harlem Hatchets (2038) (balanced)
341k, California Quantum Condors (2037) (lefties)
398k, Bold Strategy Cottons (2032) (max contact, min power)

It appears that 300k might be the realistic minimum team cost you need to be competitive at this level, though it's very possible to be proven wrong on that. I might argue a team could compete at 250k, but it would have to be a very well oiled machine. 400k+ team cost is absolutely enough, so all you managers with good pack luck and a team cost around there, you absolutely have the ability to win a Perfect WS.

And, in my opinion, probably most of these teams could compete for a Perfect WS even outside of OL (especially the perennially dominant Southpaws). We saw the worst-in-league-record Boppers secure a playoff berth in Perfect last season, which I think validates this view somewhat. OL is damn competitive.

[allenciox]

You sure are a smart shopper. Looks like you got Black Friday deals on a bunch of those guys.

Actually, the price listed is based on average AH price at the time I checked it (which was a week or so ago). I also tracked in a column not shown how much I paid for each player (or the cost to complete a collection when I got the card via collection). That totalled a little less than 415k, so about 100k total less than the average selling price listed.

[allenciox]

If anybody is interested, I just put a SE George Sisler (94) on the AH for a below 7-day price of 39,999 starting/ 43,999 BIN (7-day average is 45k). He is one of the best first baseman in the game --- I just need the PP for something else. He is brand new; has never played, so no need to worry about previous stats.

[sabakon]

Hope everyone had a great weekend. I checked out Salem this AM and discovered that I was actually able to complete another of the Pirates missions! That added a trio of new diamond cards, including some badly needed pitching. Have to see how well we do the rest of the year...

[OMGPuppies]

Originally Posted by allenciox

If anybody is interested, I just put a SE George Sisler (94) on the AH for a below 7-day price of 39,999 starting/ 43,999 BIN (7-day average is 45k). He is one of the best first baseman in the game --- I just need the PP for something else. He is brand new; has never played, so no need to worry about previous stats.

Argonaut that has your name written all over it

[OMGPuppies]

Quantacondor, excellent write up, which I will study in more detail when I get home.

[Argonaut]

Originally Posted by OMGPuppies

Argonaut that has your name written all over it

I actually got SE Sisler in a surprise fire-sale for 30k on the Vikings, and thankfully he came with no stats.

[Stanley Kuppchaser]

Originally Posted by Maxfire5

Thanks. I've added the + to all my team abbreviations now. I really am not too fussed with any of my logos. Just what the game gave me. I'm happy to change it. If someone wants to provide an alternate one for the Topeka Defenders, I'll take a look at it! Anything to make it easier on everybody.

Actually the Defenders and Rangers are quite nice and distinctive. The Legends can be difficult to pick out, though the + is a big help. I've attached a logo with the state name and the nickname for your consideration. They are both sized to fit into the game.

[Stanley Kuppchaser]

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