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Old 01-14-2020, 06:08 PM   #21
CONN CHRIS
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Quote:
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I live in Florida. So I perfectly understand that when people don't vote the way the powers that be want them to, those in charge try to prevent them from voting.
I was just joking around but as long as you are seriousing this up, no, sorry, I don't equate abusing the privilege of having a BBWAA vote to sufferage.
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Old 01-14-2020, 08:07 PM   #22
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I was just joking around but as long as you are seriousing this up, no, sorry, I don't equate abusing the privilege of having a BBWAA vote to sufferage.
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Old 01-15-2020, 10:12 AM   #23
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Today's updated Ballot Results
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Old 01-15-2020, 05:59 PM   #24
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I know I'm a "big hall" kinda guy, but didn't expect to be the only one voting for Lee
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Old 01-16-2020, 10:28 AM   #25
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Update. Next, and finale, update will be Jan 21st in the morning.
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Old 01-16-2020, 12:41 PM   #26
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Can't fathom why anyone would vote for Clemens but not Bonds
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Old 01-16-2020, 12:47 PM   #27
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Can't fathom why anyone would vote for Clemens but not Bonds

Had to make room for Konerko.
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Old 01-16-2020, 12:50 PM   #28
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Can't fathom why anyone would vote for Clemens but not Bonds
I was thinking the same thing. I can make a case for the other way around, even if I don't believe it.....

Edit: conn_chris posted this, but I didn't see it.

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Had to make room for Konerko.
Big hall guy, huh?
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Old 01-16-2020, 01:03 PM   #29
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Old 01-16-2020, 01:28 PM   #30
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Can't fathom why anyone would vote for Clemens but not Bonds
So I checked the real voting and 2 people so far have voted for Bonds but not Clemens. One Lady would not give a reason why but Jon Heyman (MLB Network) stated that because Clemens has lied so much that he has no idea what to believe from him.

Many people stated that the women didn't vote for Clemens because of his inappropriate relationship with an underage girl.
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Old 01-16-2020, 01:50 PM   #31
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Looks like only Jeter will get in on our ballot. Larry Walker is getting slept on criminally.

Though Walker is getting a nice tally in the real vote so far. Knock on wood but he looks like he may get in with Jeter, and maybe Schilling this year. And of course we'll probably be talking about Bonds and Clemens all over again next year. http://www.bbhoftracker.com/
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Old 01-16-2020, 01:56 PM   #32
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Could you imagine the below Hall of Fame ceremony in 2022.

Bonds
Clemens
Schilling
Arod
David Ortiz
Manny
Sheffield

Wonder how this one would look. Would current living Hall members not show up? Attendance down? Would be interesting.
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Old 01-16-2020, 01:58 PM   #33
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Jon Heyman (MLB Network) stated that because Clemens has lied so much that he has no idea what to believe from him.
But Bonds was up front about the whole thing?
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Old 01-16-2020, 02:01 PM   #34
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But Bonds was up front about the whole thing?
This goes back to the whole "He was a Hall of Famer before the roids." With Clemens the writer states he can't put a timeframe on his use.

I guess whatever he tells himself. I'm against them being in the Hall but I understand why they get votes and as long as someone doesn't go back and fourth i'm good with it. It's the ones that change it every year that I have issues with.
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Old 01-17-2020, 12:17 AM   #35
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Bonds completed against other people who like him used PEDs and compared to them was a great player.

Mantle competed against other people who like him partied late and played hung over and compared to them was a great player.

What's the difference? The comparison for the hall is what a player did vs his peers.

The "messes up the record book" argument doesn't fly. Cobbs single season stolen base record stood "forever" and was considered unbreakable, not because later players weren't good but because the game had changed and they didn't try to steal. Records really only apply to the era in which they were set. Well, that, and being the answer to trivia questions.
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Old 01-17-2020, 12:18 AM   #36
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Could you imagine the below Hall of Fame ceremony in 2022.

Bonds
Clemens
Schilling
Arod
David Ortiz
Manny
Sheffield

Wonder how this one would look. Would current living Hall members not show up? Attendance down? Would be interesting.
DH ABs shouldn't be counted in evaluating people for the hall. DHs are not ballplayers.
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Old 01-17-2020, 01:59 PM   #37
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I hate putting Bonds and Clemens in. I think these guys were cheaters, had an unfair advantage that they knew was wrong, and lied about it for years.

That said, I'm not sure how anyone can justify keeping them out at this point when it is basically a certainty that steroid users are in the Hall. I think we're defying logic if we are trying to convince ourselves that the Hall is free of steroid users. I find it highly doubtful that either Piazza, Pudge or Bagwell didn't use, and Canseco himself said as early as the mid 2000s that there were already users in the Hall. The guy is insane, but he was right about everything when it came to his steroid accusations.

If these guys get in, then why shouldn't Clemens and Bonds? And if we're sending users in, i think Sosa has to go too. Manny and Sheffield require a little more thought in my mind at this point, but Sosa, Bonds and Clemens have to be in if there are already steroid users elected to the Hall.

If i had it my way, I would note that they were users on their plaques, but that's not how the world works sadly...
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Old 01-17-2020, 02:03 PM   #38
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DH ABs shouldn't be counted in evaluating people for the hall. DHs are not ballplayers.

Here, here! I've always said that relief innings shouldn't be counted in evaluating pitchers for the hall as well. Who's with me?
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Old 01-17-2020, 02:59 PM   #39
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PED users have been in the hall for decades. Pud Galvin was famous for it in the 19th century. Keeping modern users out reeks of "Old Man Yelling at Cloud" because a few records were broken.
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Old 01-17-2020, 05:55 PM   #40
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Kinda, sorta, not really part of the HOF discussion, but kinda, sorta fits here. The Rockies are retiring Larry Walkers number - very nice to see.

https://www.mlb.com/rockies/news/roc...walker-s-no-33
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