Home | Webstore
Latest News: OOTP Update 20.6 - OOTP 20 Available - FHM 5 Available

  

Go Back   OOTP Developments Forums > Prior Versions of Our Games > Out of the Park Baseball 14 > OOTP 14 - General Discussions

OOTP 14 - General Discussions Discuss the new 2013 version of Out of the Park Baseball here!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-22-2013, 11:50 PM   #1
01010010
Minors (Double A)
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: N/A
Posts: 101
Thanks: 52
Thanked 44x in 15 posts
Player Popularity distribution

Can anyone give a rough estimate of what percentage of players in a standard MLB-level league typically turn out to be extremely popular, very popular, popular, well known?

I ask because player popularity is all out of whack in my new historical league and I want to make some edits to get things in order a little better. I understand there's not likely to be some set in stone numbers (if there are, probably only the developers know); I just want to get an idea of what kind of distribution you might see in a mature fictional league or maybe even the current MLB roster set.
01010010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2013, 12:52 AM   #2
tcblcommish
Hall Of Famer
 
tcblcommish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,211
Thanks: 548
Thanked 547x in 309 posts
Player Popularity distribution

I am not sure how you would base that. Your guys that are on the club for a long period of time and are generally good people or colourful ones would be the most popular. Or by simply just by being amazing at the game.

Either way, it is such a team by team thing that it would be hard to say unless others know more than I about it
tcblcommish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 01:31 AM   #3
01010010
Minors (Double A)
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: N/A
Posts: 101
Thanks: 52
Thanked 44x in 15 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 01010010 View Post
Can anyone give a rough estimate of what percentage of players in a standard MLB-level league typically turn out to be extremely popular, very popular, popular, well known?

I ask because player popularity is all out of whack in my new historical league and I want to make some edits to get things in order a little better. I understand there's not likely to be some set in stone numbers (if there are, probably only the developers know); I just want to get an idea of what kind of distribution you might see in a mature fictional league or maybe even the current MLB roster set.


I finally got around to loading the 2013 MLB quickstart to check the popularity distribution and am posting the numbers in case anybody searches for this info in the future.


1260 total MLB players

National Popularity

15 - Extremely popular (~1%)
30 - Very popular (~2.5%)
30 - Popular (~2.5%)
60 - Well known (~5%)
85 - Fair (~7%)
150 - Insignificant (~12%)
895 - Unknown (~70%)

(Local Popularity distribution was roughly the same)
01010010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 06:57 AM   #4
Bluenoser
Hall Of Famer
 
Bluenoser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Dartmouth, NS
Posts: 11,500
Thanks: 1,185
Thanked 3,582x in 2,165 posts
When you say it's "out of whack" - what do you mean?

And what numbers are you basing this off? Is there some real world data somewhere that you're comparing it to?

I've never heard of distribution % being kept in pro sports for how many of each type fan there was. How would you measure it, poll every single fan?
__________________
"I don't think a manager should be judged by whether he wins the pennant, but by whether he gets the most out of the twenty-five men he's been given." Chuck Tanner

Last edited by Bluenoser; 06-01-2013 at 08:04 AM.
Bluenoser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 07:11 AM   #5
BusterKing
Hall Of Famer
 
BusterKing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,032
Thanks: 841
Thanked 1,133x in 504 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 01010010 View Post
I finally got around to loading the 2013 MLB quickstart to check the popularity distribution and am posting the numbers in case anybody searches for this info in the future.


1260 total MLB players

National Popularity

15 - Extremely popular (~1%)
30 - Very popular (~2.5%)
30 - Popular (~2.5%)
60 - Well known (~5%)
85 - Fair (~7%)
150 - Insignificant (~12%)
895 - Unknown (~70%)

(Local Popularity distribution was roughly the same)
Well if it is geared this way for all the ootp games then I would say top 3 fields need to be increased 5X imo if compared to RL.
BusterKing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 08:04 AM   #6
Bluenoser
Hall Of Famer
 
Bluenoser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Dartmouth, NS
Posts: 11,500
Thanks: 1,185
Thanked 3,582x in 2,165 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BusterKing View Post
Well if it is geared this way for all the ootp games then I would say top 3 fields need to be increased 5X imo if compared to RL.
Do you have some real life numbers?
__________________
"I don't think a manager should be judged by whether he wins the pennant, but by whether he gets the most out of the twenty-five men he's been given." Chuck Tanner
Bluenoser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 09:15 AM   #7
01010010
Minors (Double A)
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: N/A
Posts: 101
Thanks: 52
Thanked 44x in 15 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenoser View Post
When you say it's "out of whack" - what do you mean?

And what numbers are you basing this off? Is there some real world data somewhere that you're comparing it to?

I've never heard of distribution % being kept in pro sports for how many of each type fan there was. How would you measure it, poll every single fan?
This has nothing to do with real life or real fans or polling fans or whatever you are reading into it.

Rather, when you create a league with OOTP, it generates roughly x percentage of players as extremely popular, y percentage as very popular, z percentage as popular, etc. You can see this if you create some test fictional leagues. You'll never get 50 percent of players as extremely popular or whatever; it's based on some kind of a distribution. I simply wanted to get an idea of this OOTP-generated distribution so that I could compare it against my historical league, for my own personal purposes. That's all.
01010010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 09:30 AM   #8
Bluenoser
Hall Of Famer
 
Bluenoser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Dartmouth, NS
Posts: 11,500
Thanks: 1,185
Thanked 3,582x in 2,165 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 01010010 View Post
This has nothing to do with real life or real fans or polling fans or whatever you are reading into it.

Rather, when you create a league with OOTP, it generates roughly x percentage of players as extremely popular, y percentage as very popular, z percentage as popular, etc. You can see this if you create some test fictional leagues. You'll never get 50 percent of players as extremely popular or whatever; it's based on some kind of a distribution. I simply wanted to get an idea of this OOTP-generated distribution so that I could compare it against my historical league, for my own personal purposes. That's all.
What is your basis for saying it's "out of whack"?

Out of whack compared to what?

If there's no real life data to support the percentages, then you have nothing to base it on. OOTP would most likely generate them randomly, since it has no real world data to base it on either.

If you have 9 Stud All-Stars on your team, should they all be "extremely popular"? If you have 9 duds, should they all be unpopular?

A league with a lot of talent is likely to have more "extremely popular" players than a league with fewer studs and more even distribution. It will constantly change.

Doesn't matter what is being read into it, you need something to base this on, you can't just say distribution should be x, y, and z.
__________________
"I don't think a manager should be judged by whether he wins the pennant, but by whether he gets the most out of the twenty-five men he's been given." Chuck Tanner

Last edited by Bluenoser; 06-01-2013 at 09:31 AM.
Bluenoser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 09:42 AM   #9
Questdog
Hall Of Famer
 
Questdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In a dark, damp cave where I'm training slugs to run the bases......
Posts: 12,887
Thanks: 2,002
Thanked 4,457x in 2,766 posts
I think he means that his league is "our of whack" with all other OOTP leagues that he has played. He doesn't seem to be questioning whether the data is realistic or not, but what the normal distribution is in a typical OOTP league.

I'm not sure the quickstart is the best place to figure that out, however. I don't know if the popularity info is entered manually or distributed by the game.
Questdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 10:06 AM   #10
Bluenoser
Hall Of Famer
 
Bluenoser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Dartmouth, NS
Posts: 11,500
Thanks: 1,185
Thanked 3,582x in 2,165 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Questdog View Post
I think he means that his league is "our of whack" with all other OOTP leagues that he has played. He doesn't seem to be questioning whether the data is realistic or not, but what the normal distribution is in a typical OOTP league.

I'm not sure the quickstart is the best place to figure that out, however. I don't know if the popularity info is entered manually or distributed by the game.
So what is normal distribution?

If I have a league with 6 teams, 150 players, and 25 of them are studs, do I have 25 extremely popular players?

If I have a league with 6 teams, 150 players, and 17 of them are studs, do I have 17 extremely popular players?

If I only have a small handful of studs, but a lot of players who are hard workers with good attitudes and do stuff in the community and with the fans, are they all extremely popular?

After you've answered #1 and #2, then tell me which of those two totals, 17 or 25, is normal.


Distribution will and should always vary.
__________________
"I don't think a manager should be judged by whether he wins the pennant, but by whether he gets the most out of the twenty-five men he's been given." Chuck Tanner
Bluenoser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 10:29 AM   #11
Questdog
Hall Of Famer
 
Questdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In a dark, damp cave where I'm training slugs to run the bases......
Posts: 12,887
Thanks: 2,002
Thanked 4,457x in 2,766 posts
Popularity is not in a 1 to 1 correlation with ability......
Questdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 10:40 AM   #12
Questdog
Hall Of Famer
 
Questdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In a dark, damp cave where I'm training slugs to run the bases......
Posts: 12,887
Thanks: 2,002
Thanked 4,457x in 2,766 posts
In my 24 team fictional league, in the inaugural draft there were 10 Ex. Pop, 16 V. Pop., 34 Pop., 49 Well Kn., 51 Fair, 63 Insig., rest unknown......

In the Inaugural draft, all players had the same rating for National and Local Popularity......
Questdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 11:24 AM   #13
Bluenoser
Hall Of Famer
 
Bluenoser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Dartmouth, NS
Posts: 11,500
Thanks: 1,185
Thanked 3,582x in 2,165 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Questdog View Post
Popularity is not in a 1 to 1 correlation with ability......
I'm aware of that and never said it was 1-1.
__________________
"I don't think a manager should be judged by whether he wins the pennant, but by whether he gets the most out of the twenty-five men he's been given." Chuck Tanner

Last edited by Bluenoser; 06-01-2013 at 11:35 AM.
Bluenoser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 04:54 PM   #14
01010010
Minors (Double A)
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: N/A
Posts: 101
Thanks: 52
Thanked 44x in 15 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenoser View Post
What is your basis for saying it's "out of whack"?

Out of whack compared to what?

If there's no real life data to support the percentages, then you have nothing to base it on. OOTP would most likely generate them randomly, since it has no real world data to base it on either.

[snip]

Doesn't matter what is being read into it, you need something to base this on, you can't just say distribution should be x, y, and z.
Out of whack compared to what *I* think they should be in my real players mid-1980s historical league, based on living through and following baseball very closely during that era, and out of whack relative to what I've seen in my other OOTP leagues.

The game obviously doesn't know these are real players. It generates the popularity tags based mainly on ratings, not randomly. It does a rather good job of it, but for example if a superstar happened to have a bad or injured season the year the historical league was created and a fringe player had a great fluke season, the game quite reasonably might tag the superstar as insignificant and the fringe player as extremely popular. That bugs me and will bug me each and every time I look at those two players. As a historical simmer, I like to "fix" these things.

However, I can't just start changing things willy-nilly. I don't want an *unreasonably* high/low number of "popular" players, because it impacts attendance, financials, player movement, etc. What is a reasonable or unreasonable number? I have no clue. It's a question that can't be answered. But for my purposes, roughly reflecting the distribution you see in a newly created fictional game or the MLB quickstart is as good as anything. If the game in a new league generally labels 1 percent of players extremely popular and 2.5 percent very popular, etc., or whatever, then I'm comfortable keeping my edits roughly in line with those numbers. Then things take off and popularity is all determined by what happens in the game.
01010010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 05:53 PM   #15
01010010
Minors (Double A)
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: N/A
Posts: 101
Thanks: 52
Thanked 44x in 15 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Questdog View Post
In my 24 team fictional league, in the inaugural draft there were 10 Ex. Pop, 16 V. Pop., 34 Pop., 49 Well Kn., 51 Fair, 63 Insig., rest unknown......

In the Inaugural draft, all players had the same rating for National and Local Popularity......
Thanks, this is about what I saw in my tests (if you can call them that). Assuming 24 teams would be a pool of about 725 players, here are your numbers compared to the percentages I posted above.

10 Ex. Pop (1% = 7)
16 V. Pop. (2.5% = 18)
34 Pop. (3% = 22)
49 Well Kn. (5% = 36)
51 Fair (7% = 51)
63 Insig. (12% = 87)
rest unknown

223 players insig. or above (yours)
221 players insig. or above (posted percentages)

Not exact obviously and every league will be different, but roughly in the same ballpark.
01010010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 06:14 PM   #16
Bluenoser
Hall Of Famer
 
Bluenoser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Dartmouth, NS
Posts: 11,500
Thanks: 1,185
Thanked 3,582x in 2,165 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 01010010 View Post
Out of whack compared to what *I* think they should be in my real players mid-1980s historical league, based on living through and following baseball very closely during that era, and out of whack relative to what I've seen in my other OOTP leagues.

The game obviously doesn't know these are real players. It generates the popularity tags based mainly on ratings, not randomly. It does a rather good job of it, but for example if a superstar happened to have a bad or injured season the year the historical league was created and a fringe player had a great fluke season, the game quite reasonably might tag the superstar as insignificant and the fringe player as extremely popular. That bugs me and will bug me each and every time I look at those two players. As a historical simmer, I like to "fix" these things.

However, I can't just start changing things willy-nilly. I don't want an *unreasonably* high/low number of "popular" players, because it impacts attendance, financials, player movement, etc. What is a reasonable or unreasonable number? I have no clue. It's a question that can't be answered. But for my purposes, roughly reflecting the distribution you see in a newly created fictional game or the MLB quickstart is as good as anything. If the game in a new league generally labels 1 percent of players extremely popular and 2.5 percent very popular, etc., or whatever, then I'm comfortable keeping my edits roughly in line with those numbers. Then things take off and popularity is all determined by what happens in the game.
Well, I see what you're saying/asking for, but as to the bolded/underlined above - why would that bug you? It's very realistic. There's been plenty of popular players who were nothing more than journeymen. There's been plenty of All-Stars that fans can't stand. And seeing guys have off years and falling out of favour or having a fluke year and gaining favour is very normal and realistic.
__________________
"I don't think a manager should be judged by whether he wins the pennant, but by whether he gets the most out of the twenty-five men he's been given." Chuck Tanner
Bluenoser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 10:41 PM   #17
01010010
Minors (Double A)
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: N/A
Posts: 101
Thanks: 52
Thanked 44x in 15 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenoser View Post
Well, I see what you're saying/asking for, but as to the bolded/underlined above - why would that bug you? It's very realistic. There's been plenty of popular players who were nothing more than journeymen. There's been plenty of All-Stars that fans can't stand. And seeing guys have off years and falling out of favour or having a fluke year and gaining favour is very normal and realistic.
I agree, you can think of many hypothetical examples where it's a completely realistic occurrence . But I'm talking in my case about a historical league and real life examples I know to be clearly and obviously wrong. Moreover, I'm not doing this only for some idea of historical accuracy. I *enjoy* researching these issues, and then fixing these things. So even if I could pretend that everything is realistic without changes, I personally wouldn't want to.
01010010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 09:56 AM   #18
Bluenoser
Hall Of Famer
 
Bluenoser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Dartmouth, NS
Posts: 11,500
Thanks: 1,185
Thanked 3,582x in 2,165 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 01010010 View Post
I agree, you can think of many hypothetical examples where it's a completely realistic occurrence . But I'm talking in my case about a historical league and real life examples I know to be clearly and obviously wrong. Moreover, I'm not doing this only for some idea of historical accuracy. I *enjoy* researching these issues, and then fixing these things. So even if I could pretend that everything is realistic without changes, I personally wouldn't want to.
I understand what you're trying to accomplish, however these are not hypothetical examples - they are real world.
__________________
"I don't think a manager should be judged by whether he wins the pennant, but by whether he gets the most out of the twenty-five men he's been given." Chuck Tanner
Bluenoser is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:21 PM.

 

Major League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of MLB Advanced Media, L.P. Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with the permission of Minor League Baseball. All rights reserved.

The Major League Baseball Players Association (www.MLBPLAYERS.com ) is the collective bargaining representative for all professional baseball players of the thirty Major League Baseball teams and serves as the exclusive group licensing agent for commercial and licensing activities involving active Major League baseball players. On behalf of its members, it operates the Players Choice licensing program and the Players Choice Awards, which benefit the needy through the Major League Baseball Players Trust, a charitable foundation established and run entirely by Major League baseball players. Follow: @MLB_Players; @MLBPAClubhouse; @MLBPlayersTrust

Out of the Park Baseball is a registered trademark of Out of the Park Developments GmbH & Co. KG

Google Play is a trademark of Google Inc.

Apple, iPhone, iPod touch and iPad are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.

COPYRIGHT © 2017 OUT OF THE PARK DEVELOPMENTS. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

 

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © 2018 Out of the Park Developments