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OOTP 19 - Historical Simulations Discuss historical simulations and their results in this forum.

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Old 04-08-2018, 05:48 PM   #1
01010010
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Manager, coaches, etc in historical leagues

In past versions, one thing that always bugged me about historical leagues was you’d have real players but huge staff of fictional major and minor league coaches (actually maybe there were real managers, but fictional coaches and minors staff)

Assuminging that’s the way it still works, what is the best way to deal with it? Should I turn off coaching altogether when I create the game? I’m only concerned about the strategy implications of using or not using coaching, not the player development aspect. If I turn off coaching, I suppose I’d also lose the manager/player chemistry and conflict, something I would actually like in my game.

Basically, if I want the Cardinals of the 1980s play like the cardinals of the 1980s but don’t want to see fictional coaches, is the best thing to do is turn off coaching and set the AI team’s strategy to small ball and lock it?

Last edited by 01010010; 04-08-2018 at 06:06 PM.
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Old 04-10-2018, 09:18 AM   #2
clamel
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That's what I would do, and have done in the past.
I have been asking about the addition of real coaches and at least managers in historical setups for some years, but no sound from The Man.

The biggest issue I see is that the real managers that managed the teams the years you start are in with correct win-loss and experience. Never mind that their tactics isn't always correct, but managers that sat out that year and signed the year after will never pop up in the game.

This is like in older version you had a player sitting out one year you start, then he never got into the game the next year he played. This was fixed several version ago so why not put more realism for at least managers.
It would be fun to have some real managers without jobs when you start that are managers you recognize. Now you got even loads of "international" managers that in older days never would make it to a MLB team. Some sort of DB for managers are in (Lahmann) so perhaps we could at least import new managers at any point like players we think is missing. That would almost be enough IMHO

The risk that a fictional managers take charge of a MLB team and run it very different than normal is too big
I also turn of any morale and other stuff. Historical is mostly about what they did score not how they felt and what issue players got with each other. Kind of playing APBA or SoM with cards.
You have to rely on stats a player put up, not mood or emotions (that is also fictional).
I even came up once with Barry Bonds as a very likeable guy
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Old 04-11-2018, 02:38 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01010010 View Post
Basically, if I want the Cardinals of the 1980s play like the cardinals of the 1980s but don’t want to see fictional coaches, is the best thing to do is turn off coaching and set the AI team’s strategy to small ball and lock it?
I just create a shortlist called managers/coaches then I add all the players in the game who became managers/coaches IRL to the shortlist. When they retire I turn them in to coaches and edit them afterwards to what kind of coach they were. I also edit their individual ratings sometimes. That way a guy like John Mcgraw, who played for the Orioles in the 1890's, becomes a manager in my historical replay after retirement. His ratings I would tweak to the high end. He might not manage the Giants but he'll be somewhere. I even turned Babe Ruth into a manager.

I add these guys to the shortlist when their rookies but sometimes I miss someone. Just keep checking the retirement list. If there are fictional coaches created in the game that just don't fit the era I'm in I just delete them.
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Old 04-11-2018, 11:45 AM   #4
Spritze
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The historical database has all the MLB manager seasons
12,230 minor league manager seasons
34,485 minor league coach seasons
2,594 MLB coach seasons

So lots of unused data on the not so short list as well.
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Old 04-11-2018, 12:28 PM   #5
Orcin
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I would put this feature at the very top of my wish list. We should have historically correct managers available to hire (and very few, if any, fictional managers) in a historical league.

Also, the historical manager with 10 years of experience and a winning record in real life should not start out as "unknown", "inexperienced", or "unproven". This happens when you use the editor to convert players to coaches/managers in an attempt to correct the problem. The database could be used to properly rate the manager when he comes into the game, just like imported players.
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Old 04-11-2018, 03:41 PM   #6
clamel
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Glad to see the thoughts. I knew more than a few thinks real managers/coaches should be in the game when playing historical setups. Not just the managers for the teams in the year you start.

Get rid of all these fictional ones and I hope the case is put HIGH on the short list.

Markus could start with adding the possibility of just importing managers/coaches in this file just like players. That can't be too much of a trouble.
I will count the days and hope it will make it into OOTP19 not in some distant future. version.
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Old 04-19-2018, 04:42 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by crawdad5000 View Post
I just create a shortlist called managers/coaches then I add all the players in the game who became managers/coaches IRL to the shortlist. When they retire I turn them in to coaches and edit them afterwards to what kind of coach they were. I also edit their individual ratings sometimes. That way a guy like John Mcgraw, who played for the Orioles in the 1890's, becomes a manager in my historical replay after retirement. His ratings I would tweak to the high end. He might not manage the Giants but he'll be somewhere. I even turned Babe Ruth into a manager.

I add these guys to the shortlist when their rookies but sometimes I miss someone. Just keep checking the retirement list. If there are fictional coaches created in the game that just don't fit the era I'm in I just delete them.
This is the kind of thing I used to do is well. It's actually what prompted me to consider turning off coaching this time. In the past, the perfectionist in me would end up spending all this time editing coaches to have the correct strategies, turning retired players who had the right personality traits into coaches, deleting fictional coaches, etc.

Then the season would end and Tommy Lasorda would get fired, all the retired players would be terrible bench coaches and get passed over, a re-spawned fictional manager would take the Dodgers' job, Lasorda would become the pitching coach for some other re-spawned fictional manager, and I would throw my hands up in the air. It just didn't seem worth it anymore.
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Old 04-19-2018, 04:56 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by clamel View Post
Glad to see the thoughts. I knew more than a few thinks real managers/coaches should be in the game when playing historical setups. Not just the managers for the teams in the year you start.

Get rid of all these fictional ones and I hope the case is put HIGH on the short list.

Markus could start with adding the possibility of just importing managers/coaches in this file just like players. That can't be too much of a trouble.
I will count the days and hope it will make it into OOTP19 not in some distant future. version.
Agreed. The irony is that you can check a box in settings to block any fictional minor leaguers from being promoted, because obviously you don't want to ruin the realism of a historical sim by letting a single fictional player into the league (...who would be coached by one of the nearly 1000 fictional coaches but that's beside the point).
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Old 04-22-2018, 02:00 AM   #9
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Did you ever notice if you do a random debut league in the 1800's or early 1900's, when there were more player/managers, that someone would be managing then his player id would debut a year or two later. Then you would have the same dude managing one team and playing for another? Or worse yet, managing himself? Pretty funny.
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Old 04-23-2018, 12:44 PM   #10
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I agree with nearly everyone here that:

1. having fictional managers and GMs wrecks the mythological experience of playing a historical league (even a random debut one).

2. that having historical managers with something like their real-life tendencies and experience would be great.

Like crawdad5000, when admirable players retire (say, Jackie Robinson, or Honus Wagner) I often turn them into coaches and will hire one as my manager and another as my bench coach. But for some of the reasons stated, I usually now just play with coaching turned off, since it ends up being a long slog through fictional names to hire people every couple of seasons.

Also, I remember that in version 16 I think it was, it was possible to be the GM and actually manage the team day to day, but to have in any case a largely symbolic manager. Now, the only way to have a manager is to be GM only - since 17 or 18, I forget. That brings all the problems stated above.
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Old 04-24-2018, 12:57 PM   #11
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As I mentioned in another thread, this would definitely be a winner for people coming over from other games (DMB, Strat, Dynasty, etc.).

I'm just delving into the game now and I'm a little surprised historical GMs and managers aren't more easily integrated into the game, especially for historical sims.

I noticed the 2018 opening day game has real GMs. Is it possible to export/import them into a fictional league?
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Old 05-22-2018, 03:12 AM   #12
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There are strategies for about 50 managers, not sure who made them or how accurate they are, but they are in the folder strategy_profiles and have .str file name extensions. You can go to a team's strategy page and in the strategy presets drop down menu there is an option to import strategy from file and then navigate to folder. I don't think they are used in the game, however, at least automatically. You can also export strategies if you create the coaches and strategies yourself.

Hopefully they'll put some work into this in the next version.
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Old 05-22-2018, 08:51 AM   #13
WahooSam309
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It would be nice, also, if the game could understand player-managers, since that was how almost all teams were run in the old days.
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