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Old 04-25-2014, 11:35 AM   #21
gRaider2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlton View Post
If this is a league you are managing a team in, ignore OPS+
That is used mostly to compare Babe Ruth with Willie Mays to see which was more dominant compared to their league

OPS is fine to see power,eye, contact

What is a good OPS in your league? Look at ALL the players in your league, via statistics and sortable stats on the right tab, sort by overall OPS, if it's 30 pages to scroll through, anyone on page 1 through 14 has a good OPS
Thank you for providing insight to what is a good OPS+ :-)
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Old 04-25-2014, 12:17 PM   #22
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OPS is quick and dirty, and accordingly biased and flawed. Use WOBA (or WRC) for batter evaluation.

Comparing marginal effects of offensive events upon wOBA and OPS ? The Hardball Times
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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
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Old 04-25-2014, 07:27 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by gRaider2001 View Post
Thanks Booble, for sharing the links and info. I have updated the first post of the thread to reflect:-)
Hey now!
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Old 04-25-2014, 07:43 PM   #24
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Hey now!
Aw, man....first real laugh of the day. Thanks!
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Old 04-25-2014, 09:28 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Bobble View Post
Hey now!
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Originally Posted by endgame View Post
Aw, man....first real laugh of the day. Thanks!
Hey Bobble, so sorry about that Took me a second to figure at why endgame was laughing:-)
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Old 04-25-2014, 09:30 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wolf View Post
OPS is quick and dirty, and accordingly biased and flawed. Use WOBA (or WRC) for batter evaluation.

Comparing marginal effects of offensive events upon wOBA and OPS ? The Hardball Times
Thanks for sharing The Wolf, interesting read. I also added the link to the blog The Hardball Times to my "The Knowledge Thread." Thanks for sharing:-)
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Old 04-25-2014, 09:57 PM   #27
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IMO, a lot of the more in-depth stats are only useful as a summary of all the basic stats. As long as you look at all the basic stats, you are getting all the information that is out there. For me, I look at avg, obp, ops, fielding efficiency, WAR, and the split between doubles, triples, homers for hitters. For pitchers I look at era, whip, k-rate, bb-rate, homer-rate, and WAR.

Every one statistic is flawed. All of these esoteric stats that supremacists swear by are just algorithms of the basic stats. I think the key is to build your own intuition from these basic stats and observations of future results.

Last edited by BeancheBlanco; 04-25-2014 at 09:59 PM.
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Old 04-27-2014, 01:03 AM   #28
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Some stats are better than others.

(And some stat's mothers are better than other stat's mothers.)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
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Old 04-27-2014, 01:18 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by gRaider2001 View Post
Thanks for sharing The Wolf, interesting read. I also added the link to the blog The Hardball Times to my "The Knowledge Thread." Thanks for sharing:-)
You might want to link to this series, it's very educational.

Sabermetrics 101: Wrap-Up (And Announcement!) - Lookout Landing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
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Old 04-27-2014, 01:19 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by The Wolf View Post
You might want to link to this series, it's very educational.

Sabermetrics 101: Wrap-Up (And Announcement!) - Lookout Landing
Awesome The Wolf, adding it to The Knowledge Thread right now:-)
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Old 05-16-2014, 03:40 PM   #31
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I wish the game had wRC+, but it doesn't so I just use wOBA for hitters. I hardly ever look at overall wOBA though, always looking at L/R splits there.

For pitchers I put their vital stats in a spreadsheet and calculate SIERA. I may use FIP to eyeball things in-game but for serious evaluation I hate relying on any stat that includes IP as a component.
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Old 05-16-2014, 03:49 PM   #32
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Most important stat for pitchers - WINS

Most important stat for batters - RBI


Oh wait, I thought it was 1978 for a moment there...
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Old 05-16-2014, 04:06 PM   #33
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Pitching stats ranked in order:

Tool: Basically Every Pitching Stat Correlation | FanGraphs Baseball
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
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Old 05-16-2014, 04:12 PM   #34
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I like to look at the stats as a whole when really looking at a player, but the first ones I look at are:
- ERA+, FIP & WAR for pitchers
- OPS+, WAR & wOBA for batters (& ZR when looking at fielding)
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Old 05-16-2014, 04:27 PM   #35
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ERA has the worst season to season correlation of any of the pitching performance stats, and as for WAR for pitchers, well WAR for Pitchers | FanGraphs Sabermetrics Library
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
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Old 05-17-2014, 10:58 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by The Wolf View Post
ERA has the worst season to season correlation of any of the pitching performance stats, and as for WAR for pitchers, well WAR for Pitchers | FanGraphs Sabermetrics Library
He did say ERA+, which I believe is more reliable.
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Old 05-17-2014, 11:20 AM   #37
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He did say ERA+, which I believe is more reliable.
When you adjust a garbage stat for ballpark and league, all you get is an adjusted garbage stat.

ERA is not a valid pitching performance metric. It includes the performance of the team's defense and its bullpen. Use FIP instead, which is a valid pitching performance metric.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
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Old 05-17-2014, 01:04 PM   #38
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ERA is not a valid pitching performance metric. It includes the performance of the team's defense and its bullpen. Use FIP instead, which ...
... also includes the performance of the team's defense (via IP).
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Old 05-17-2014, 01:32 PM   #39
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... also includes the performance of the team's defense (via IP).
FIP = ((13*HR)+(3*(BB+HBP))-(2*K))/IP + constant

There is ZERO defensive component.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
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Old 05-17-2014, 02:27 PM   #40
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FIP = ((13*HR)+(3*(BB+HBP))-(2*K))/IP + constant

There is ZERO defensive component.
I explicitly told you which of these components I consider defense-dependent, so you're not really advancing the discussion here.

But it's so obvious to me that a pitcher with a great defense behind him will have a higher IP than a pitcher with a weak defense behind him that I don't even consider it worth talking about, so I'm not too bothered.

Those willing to calculate something but who think SIERA is too complex might also consider kwERA: 5.40 - 12*(K-BB)/PA.

Or you could of course just replace the IP in FIP with PA/4.3. Upgrade to xFIP while you're at it by replacing 13*HR by 1.4*FB.
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