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View Poll Results: Who should be the 1871 NA MVP? | |||
Ross Barnes, SS, Boston | 3 | 8.11% | |
John Hatfield, 2B-OF, Mutual | 14 | 37.84% | |
Joe Start, 1B, Mutual | 3 | 8.11% | |
Steve King, LF, Haymaker-Mutual | 3 | 8.11% | |
Ezra Sutton, 3B, Forest City | 14 | 37.84% | |
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll |
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04-23-2010, 05:10 AM | #1 |
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1871 Results and Award Voting for MVP
So I just finished the 1871 season, and here were my results:
Mutual Club of New York 23-10 Athletic Club of Philadelphia 18-9 Forest City Club of Cleveland 16-13 Chicago White Stockings 14-14 Olympic Club of Washington 13-17 Boston Red Stockings 12-18 Kekionga Club of Fort Wayne 11-7 Forest City Club of Rockford 9-16 Haymaker Club of Troy 8-20 I'd also like to ask for everyone's help in voting on my awards. I'm doing something different for these - I'm only going to show everyone the statistics that were in use in the early 1870s. (Batting average came along in 1872, but I decided to go with it anyway.) So now you've seen how things came out. Here are the candidates listed in random order; vote your conscience. Ross Barnes, SS, Boston Red Stockings - .320 batting average, 47 hits, 47 runs scored, 69 total bases The case for: He was the star hitter for Harry Wright's Boston club, and was among the league leaders in several batting categories while playing shortstop. The case against: Not in the top ten in batting average, and only third on his team in hits. Runs scored are impressive but for a team that won only 12 of its 30 games. Also, he did not field well at shortstop. John Hatfield, 2B-OF, Mutual Club of New York - .337 batting average, 58 hits, 56 runs scored, 92 total bases The case for: Top ten in batting average, and first in the NA in hits, runs scored and total bases. Played for the pennant-winning team, at both second base and left field, and was solid at both positions. The case against: Only third-highest batting average on his own team. A lot of his big numbers come from hitting at the top of the powerful Mutual lineup. Lots of stars on Mutual club, so it's hard to single out one. Joe Start, 1B, Mutual Club of New York - .346 batting average, 56 hits, 51 runs scored, 73 total bases The case for: The best batting average of any player who spend the whole season with pennant-winning Mutual. Sixth in the league in batting, and second to Hatfield in both hits and runs scored. The case against: Played an easier defensive position than Hatfield. Less extra-base power than the other contenders. One of many good players on Mutual, and no compelling reason to pick him over others. Steve King, LF, Haymaker Club of Troy/Mutual Club of New York - .347 batting average, 43 hits, 44 runs scored, 87 total bases The case for: Fourth in the league in batting average. Best power hitter in the league - second in total bases. Came over to Mutual in July in first-ever player trade and was outstanding. The case against: Mutual just as good without him (14-6) as with him (9-4). Fewer plate appearances than other contenders. Not a particularly good fielder in left. Ezra Sutton, 3B, Forest City Club of Cleveland - .383 batting average, 54 hits, 39 runs scored, 83 total bases The case for: Batting champion of the NA. The most hits and total bases of any non-Mutual player. Pretty much single-handedly led his team to a winning record. Good defensive third baseman. The case against: Team wasn't really that good. Faded a little down the stretch. Not among the league leaders in runs scored.
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04-23-2010, 12:48 PM | #2 |
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I always go for the power hitter.
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04-23-2010, 12:52 PM | #3 |
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Hatfield would be my choice with Sutton a close second.
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04-23-2010, 01:01 PM | #4 |
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In truth, this is a pretty close call even if I look at the more advanced metrics (such as something called an 'RBI') the game generates.
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04-23-2010, 01:49 PM | #5 |
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my personal preference would be to see AVG OBP SLG R RBI SB as stats. Total Bases in lieu of SLG is fine, but knowing each players OBP or BB & AB would be ideal for me to make a more informed choice.
edit: wow, can't believe how much love Sutton is getting given the relative lack of information. Dude played on a subpar team, didn't have as many hits as that lofty average would suggest, and didn't score enough. Last edited by statfreak; 04-23-2010 at 01:53 PM. Reason: added comment after seeing poll results |
04-23-2010, 02:02 PM | #6 | |
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RBI I'll be adding later in the 1870s; it was the newfangled stat of the era.
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04-23-2010, 02:32 PM | #7 |
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Doesn't the fact that his teammates weren't that good affect how often he scored? And his hit total looks comparable to the other listed players - Hatfield led the league with only four more hits, and nobody who didn't play for Mutual had more hits than Sutton.
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04-23-2010, 11:15 PM | #8 | |
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I went for Ross Barnes on account of his beautiful baseball face and the fact that he really walks like a ballplayer. Also, I think he really has something going with that fair-foul hit. That could be in vogue for the next century. In all honesty, had Dickey Pearce been one of the nominees, he and his "tricky hit" would have gotten the Thriftvote.
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Last edited by Syd Thrift; 04-23-2010 at 11:16 PM. |
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04-24-2010, 12:11 AM | #9 | |
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Quote:
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04-24-2010, 12:46 AM | #10 | ||
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Quote:
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04-24-2010, 04:20 AM | #11 |
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This I can tell you. He was unexpectedly terrible. Using the measures above, he hit .226 (or 1.03 hits/game, as compared with 1.86 for his teammate Sutton), with 30 hits, 30 runs, and 36 total bases.
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04-24-2010, 05:24 AM | #12 | |
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I had a couple OTBL people who couldn't log in ask for votes for Sutton, so I'm going to use that to break the tie and declare him the winner. Thanks to all who voted!
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04-24-2010, 05:55 AM | #13 | |
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At any rate, they're essentially the same thing -- how many hits did the guy average per game? Too bad about the Deacon, but 29 games is too short a season for the laws of averages to kick in reliably. He'll be back in 1872. A great catcher like that would be valuable almost regardless of his BA, although .226 really is pretty low for 1871. |
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04-24-2010, 09:26 AM | #14 |
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One of the reasons I went with Sutton was that he was on a bad team. A brilliant season considering no supporting cast. Of course, with the Eastern-centric focus of the Association, I would assume Hatfield to win.
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05-12-2010, 09:13 PM | #15 |
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How closely grouped together were the games you played?
I just played through the 1871 season using the game's schedule engine, which placed the games one after the other, and the poor starting pitchers were absolutely exhausted! Historically, the games were played with several rest days in between, so I was curious about the schedule you ran. Also, if there's a file available with a more historically accurate schedule, that'd be great. Thanks! |
05-12-2010, 11:33 PM | #16 | |
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Quote:
http://padresfanmods.net/
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05-13-2010, 05:21 AM | #17 | |
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Also questions such as are there any rules I need to change in the league setup if I'm going to sigh players through free agency right away after the draft, etc. |
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05-13-2010, 10:01 AM | #18 | |
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1. Create a fictional league in 1870 (2 teams is fine). 2. Sim to off season 3. Delete teams; delete all players; erase league history 4. Create the National Association teams for 1871 5. On each team's Options/Ballpark page, enter the Lahman team ID into the historical ID field 6. Sim to 1871 preseason At this point, all of your teams will have the 1871 players. Load your schedule and sim away. The transition from year to year is then similar to the 1871 start. At the offseason of the previous year, I change the structure of the league, add or delete teams as necessary. Sim to the next preseason and the players that debuted in that year are on the correct teams.
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05-13-2010, 01:57 PM | #19 | |
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The real key, though, is using historical schedules. When the players are exhausted the results you get are definitely a little off. (Which reminds me - the thing I'd like to see for OOTP 12 is the ability to manually edit fatigue levels.)
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05-13-2010, 06:18 PM | #20 | |
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So I thought it was interesting that although the batting numbers were inflated due to exhausted starting pitchers, the team win-loss results seems to remain accurate to a degree. Last edited by Shazbat; 05-15-2010 at 05:27 PM. |
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