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Old 02-09-2020, 05:45 PM   #281
Brad K
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I dont doubt he would have used some of the information he knew but i dont think it affected his decisions as a manager. Rose wasn't managing based on his bets. He was betting based on his abilities as a manager.
If he started making decisions according to what his betting needs were it may or may not have worked but i just see it as more of a benefit of his baseball ability.
You acknowledge that Rose was betting from the advantage of having insider information. And if he is doing that, the next step of using his position of power to influence the outcome is a very short step.

By gambling he already was breaking the rules. Knowingly. So once that fence is broken, why impose any personally devised restrictions?

Last edited by Brad K; 02-09-2020 at 07:55 PM.
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Old 02-09-2020, 07:39 PM   #282
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Pete Rose is the all-time leader in hits... as a player. The rest is irrelevant noise.
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Old 02-09-2020, 10:25 PM   #283
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You acknowledge that Rose was betting from the advantage of having insider information. And if he is doing that, the next step of using his position of power to influence the outcome is a very short step.

By gambling he already was breaking the rules. Knowingly. So once that fence is broken, why impose any personally devised restrictions?

Because the article was on the accusation that Rose was hurting his team by betting on his team to win,
Is Rose's inside information any different than workers buying stock in their company based on what they've seen and heard? If they sell company information illegally that would be wrong but I'm not sure Rose did that.
In any case I dont see Rose getting in the hall in my lifetime. I'm not sure if I agree or disagree with it.
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Old 02-09-2020, 10:47 PM   #284
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In any case I dont see Rose getting in the hall in my lifetime. I'm not sure if I agree or disagree with it.
I'm in the same place. Although I won't have him on my OOTP teams. Along with Dykstra and Schilling. I have a no jerks rule.

Dick Allen I'll take. He was a jerk as a reaction to the Philly fans. The others, well, their jerkism was from within.
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Old 02-09-2020, 10:51 PM   #285
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Because the article was on the accusation that Rose was hurting his team by betting on his team to win,
That isn't what the article said. It said it seemed Rose was weakening his team one day in exchange for it being stronger the next and bet accordingly.

Trading today for tomorrow is a reasonable tactic. Until the guy doing it is betting on games and alters betting behavior that seems linked to team strength decisions he made.
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Old 02-10-2020, 09:41 AM   #286
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That isn't what the article said. It said it seemed Rose was weakening his team one day in exchange for it being stronger the next and bet accordingly.

Trading today for tomorrow is a reasonable tactic. Until the guy doing it is betting on games and alters betting behavior that seems linked to team strength decisions he made.

How would betting on your team and making managing decisions according to your betting needs not the same thing? If Rose sat guys because he needed them the next game he may have hurt the team.
I dont believe he held players out for his bets.
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Old 02-10-2020, 05:53 PM   #287
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This should be interesting - ex pitcher suing Astros over sign stealing scandal. Claims it ended his career.

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/baseball/m...tros-1.5458728

Whether he wins or loses, I sincerely hope this black mark on the Astros and MLB doesn't go away for a long long time.

Last edited by Bluenoser; 02-10-2020 at 05:55 PM.
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Old 02-10-2020, 06:10 PM   #288
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Nice.
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Old 02-10-2020, 06:54 PM   #289
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I hope he wins every count. Especially since the biggest claim is for all of the fraudulent playoff bonuses to be donated to charity.

Although any player who didn't already do that on their own has outed themselves as absolute bottom of the barrel human garbage.
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Old 02-10-2020, 08:10 PM   #290
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Seems like everyone is going after the players except the MLB and they found them guilty of cheating.
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Old 02-11-2020, 08:22 PM   #291
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Wow, even more is coming out ...

Ex-Astros Player Says Carlos Beltran 'Steamrolled' Opposition to Sign-Stealing

Astros cheating scandal: Four takeaways from sign-stealing data logged by Houston fan
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Some players had more signs than others
For whatever reason some Astros players received more signs via the banging scheme than others. Maybe the players who did not receive many signs felt it didn't help (or actively hurt) them at the plate, or believed it was unfair and chose not to participate. Either way, Adams' data shows some players received more signs than others.

Here are the three 2017 Astros regulars with the most bangs recorded while at the plate:

Marwin Gonzalez: 147 bangs (18.9 percent of all pitches recorded)
George Springer: 139 bangs (14.9 percent)
Carlos Beltran: 138 bangs (18.1 percent)
Alex Bregman (133 bangs) and Yuli Gurriel (120 bangs) were the only other players with triple-digit bangs recorded, and their rates were higher than Springer's (16.6 percent and 17.9 percent, respectively). When you see the banging numbers, how different does Gonzalez's 2017 season look? Consider:



PA AVG/OBP/SLG HR BB% K%
Gonzalez from 2015-16

888 .264/.303/.418 25 4.3% 21.6%

Gonzalez in 2017

515 .303/.377/.530 23 9.5% 19.1%

Gonzalez from 2018-19

1,015 .255/.323/.411 31 8.3% 22.1%

Correlation does not equal causation, and Gonzalez was 28 in 2017, an age when many players have career years. Given what we know about the banging scheme now, it's awfully hard to give him or any Astros player the benefit of the doubt though. We know they were doing something illegal and unfair. The commissioner says so and the data says so.

Now here are the three 2017 Astros regulars with the fewest bangs recorded while at the plate:

Jose Altuve: 24 bangs (2.8 percent of all pitches recorded)
Josh Reddick: 28 bangs (3.9 percent)
Brian McCann: 45 bangs (8.9 percent)
Carlos Beltran disregarded pleas from Astros teammates to stop stealing signs, report says
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Old 02-11-2020, 10:07 PM   #292
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Marwin is the first to apologize
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Old 02-11-2020, 10:25 PM   #293
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Beltran is now the scapegoat.
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Old 02-12-2020, 12:03 AM   #294
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How would betting on your team and making managing decisions according to your betting needs not the same thing? If Rose sat guys because he needed them the next game he may have hurt the team.
I dont believe he held players out for his bets.
That isn't what the article alleges. It alleges he held out good players on games he DIDN'T bet on so they'd be available for future games he was going to bet on.
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Old 02-12-2020, 12:01 PM   #295
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Best punishment for the Astros and their fans is to bring back the old Colt Stadium and force the home games to be played outdoors there amidst the swarms of vampire quality mosquitoes from the early 1960's.
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Old 02-12-2020, 12:35 PM   #296
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Best punishment for the Astros and their fans is to bring back the old Colt Stadium and force the home games to be played outdoors there amidst the swarms of vampire quality mosquitoes from the early 1960's.
Just curious, but why do the fans deserve to be punished?
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Old 02-12-2020, 10:09 PM   #297
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That isn't what the article alleges. It alleges he held out good players on games he DIDN'T bet on so they'd be available for future games he was going to bet on.
Um I said betting on your team and MAKING managerial decisions BASED on your betting needs.
That would include holding out good players.
I dont see Rose doing that unless a game is out of reach. The Reds were in no position to not play their best players. If they had a 15 game lead then maybe I could see it.
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Old 02-12-2020, 10:53 PM   #298
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Um I said betting on your team and MAKING managerial decisions BASED on your betting needs.
That would include holding out good players.
I dont see Rose doing that unless a game is out of reach. The Reds were in no position to not play their best players. If they had a 15 game lead then maybe I could see it.
OK, I now see the issue. You didn't read the article. Never mind.
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Old 02-13-2020, 11:13 AM   #299
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Just curious, but why do the fans deserve to be punished?
This is a thought-provoking comment. What about the fans? There is really nothing to be done, of course, but what is to be said about the desire to lump fans into the discussion?

I guess it goes to the rage that other fans feel. I myself have thought repeatedly about the 2017 ALCS, how tight a series that was, and how the Astros won every game in Houston.

If they are to be punished, Astros fans must endure the knowledge that their team cheated and will wonder if their team really deserved to win it all in 2017. That's how I would feel, badly, about the 2009 Yankees if similar revelations were ever uncovered about that team. That suffices as punishment.
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Old 02-13-2020, 11:59 AM   #300
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https://twitter.com/cbssports/status...70396793774082

What a bunch of absolute idiots involved in this. Crane should be forced to sell the team. The players are all pieces of ****.

Manfred being the biggest one of all. Should be fired immediately for not stripping the title.
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