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07-06-2012, 09:30 AM | #21 | |
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3) On this issue, this whole community lives in a glass house. I am no different than any other logomaker who posts a 'set' of logos or fills a request with some logo they found scouring the net. What confuses me about this issue is that this whole community has been doing for years exactly what you say we should be against - though I can't find any exact posts I am pretty sure you, like many others, have posted MLB logos. Yes, this thread has been about CC's forum (well, once we highjacked it from Lancaster ). But how is that different then using a Detroit Tigers logo without permission? If we want to make a big deal about CC's forum then we better (have to) make a big deal out of using real, professional logos also. But we don't, that's why I'm broadening the topic. I think its great that you ask permission at CC's forum - I'm sure they do too. I just don't think it's necessary. Just like I don't think it's necessary to ask the Miami Marlins to use their logos - because we don't take credit for them. But we can't say its necessary at CC's but not necessary for the MLB. I think it's pretty hypocritical to get upset over logos from CC's forum but not logos from the MLB, etc.
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5000+ Generic Logos Free for the Taking FREE: Uniforms and logos for 500+ teams spanning 1871-present Great Lakes League: 10 Conferences, 100 Teams Pre-OOTP 23 Custom Cap & Jersey Template v3.0 by Deft and NoPepper (with layers from other various artists) that I use: Caps, Jerseys Last edited by cephasjames; 07-06-2012 at 11:18 AM. |
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07-06-2012, 01:10 PM | #22 |
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If you don't think it necessary to ask permission to take an individual's work (at CC's or some other site) is your own business. Evidently, its usually expected. You're the one drawing all the attention back some time ago, not me. You're the one with a photobucket full of things that I've seen at creamer's.
I feel MLB stuff is different, so yes, I've posted MLB stuff, but never anything I swiped from anyone at creamer's site (or any other, to my knowledge). I don't normally make 'sets' and such for the masses for this very reason. Anything I use for myself is asked for ahead of time. Its how I conduct myself. Your mileage obviously varies. Last edited by Cooleyvol; 07-06-2012 at 01:11 PM. |
07-06-2012, 02:01 PM | #23 |
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Frankly if I don't want something copied or otherwise pissed around with I wont post it publicly on the internet. Of course most people don't have the same view of open content as me.
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07-06-2012, 02:02 PM | #24 | |
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Now, while much of it is learning the program, one does still need some basic drawing or artistic ability. Me, for example, I can't draw people or animals so the kind of things found in many real-world logos are beyond my ability (I'd need to take some art courses). So I concentrated on logos which involved very basic imagery and/or creating various effects with the text/type. Lately, I've been considering resurrecting a project I had thought about a couple of years ago. I haven't created any logos in a long time and I'm kind of getting the itch to be creative again. Last edited by Le Grande Orange; 07-06-2012 at 02:04 PM. |
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07-06-2012, 02:29 PM | #25 | |
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Now, is it nice to ask? Sure. I think it's great that you care enough about the people in that community to be so kind . But if someone posts a piece of art on a public forum on the internet then it is fair game to 'copy and paste' it as long as the copier is not claiming credit for the original work, which we at these forums don't. To speak to your point, some people at CC's forum are not fans of that idea, therefore it is a good idea to ask permission - but it is not required. No hard feelings against you, cooley . You are a valuable member to this community, but I think you're being a hypocrite in this. I am well aware that I haven't asked permission for any of the logos I collected, MLB or not (I don't differentiate), and I believe that that is okay because I don't claim credit for any of them.
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5000+ Generic Logos Free for the Taking FREE: Uniforms and logos for 500+ teams spanning 1871-present Great Lakes League: 10 Conferences, 100 Teams Pre-OOTP 23 Custom Cap & Jersey Template v3.0 by Deft and NoPepper (with layers from other various artists) that I use: Caps, Jerseys Last edited by cephasjames; 07-06-2012 at 02:47 PM. |
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07-06-2012, 03:17 PM | #26 |
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That forum is a forum FOR designers, by designers. That's the difference, IMO, from other forums.
Those guys are honing their craft, and sometimes doing things for money on that forum. As far as it not 'being required' to ask permission -- that's up to the creator of each work. |
07-06-2012, 09:25 PM | #27 |
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I have used Cris Creamers many of times for logos. I have seen the concept thread in those forums but don't know much about that community and it rules/etiquette.
My question is, Do all those guys in this thread have expressed written permission to use the names "Pacific Coast League", "Vancouver Mounties", "Seattle Rainiers" and, "Los Angeles Angels" to use in their concept designs?? |
07-06-2012, 09:35 PM | #28 |
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The difference between MLB logos and concepts over on CC is pretty obvious. For starters, MLB teams earn millions of dollars per year, and whilst they could easily jump onto OOTP, or contact Markus with a cease and desist letter they generally don't bother because it's not worth the money. Furthermore, the logo/s are considered mainstream, so if anything, it creates free advertising.
With concepts, most designers (even the best ones over on CC) aren't financially as well off as MLB teams, so it's quite obvious they are protective of their work. If I took your photobucket cephasjames and passed it off as my own work on another forum, and everyone was praising me for all the hard work I put into it, you'd be pretty miffed, right? It's exactly the same for concepts. Ok, you aren't selling the logos but once it's "mainstream" so to speak, it becomes very difficult to control where that image ends up. You only have to look on the CC forums to see people calling local/amateur teams out for pinching a logo without paying any fee. If I was starting up a local team I could easily sift through your collection and "use" a logo, despite the fact I haven't paid a cent for it. You're essentially stealing food from the designer's table imo. Now, I'll admit, I used to pinch logos until I realised what I was doing. I'm now in the process of having logos either designed for me (at a price, obviously) or I'm making my own. Now, I don't expect people to pay for logos to be designed (I'm doing it for real marketing purposes eventually). But a quick PM asking the designer if it's ok to use their logo is all that suffices. admittedly, most will say no, but it's just general courtesy. |
07-06-2012, 09:52 PM | #29 | |
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So if one of those concepts is bought by a professional team and is used, then is it alright to take it without permission???? I understand what both sides are saying, but to say one thing is alright then the other is wrong is BS. |
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07-06-2012, 10:15 PM | #30 | |
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07-06-2012, 10:17 PM | #31 |
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Portraying a logo that's trademarked in a fictional environment (be it a novel, movie or game etc.) is generally considered fine. As long as the use of the logo doesn't confuse the viewer as to who owns the trademark. Which in regards to OOTP would be considered fine (I'm sure if the MLB wanted to they could find a loophole) as the logos are generally being used with the correct team name. Although people who use current MLB logos for fictional teams could, in theory, be in hot water.
As logos from CC are not trademarked they generally fall under "All Rights Reserved" to prevent people from pinching them. It'd be exactly the same as someone using your holiday snaps on Facebook without your permission. |
07-06-2012, 10:23 PM | #32 |
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Honestly, no, I wouldn't be miffed because 1) and this is the most important thing to remember, I don't pass it off as my own work - I never have and 2) I didn't collect those logo for credit, I collected them for sharing.
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07-06-2012, 10:25 PM | #33 | |
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07-06-2012, 10:30 PM | #34 |
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It is not fine if the trademark is removed, it is against the law. Which the majority of the community does, including myself.
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07-06-2012, 10:31 PM | #35 |
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Yes, exactly. So why remove the trademark then?
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07-06-2012, 10:40 PM | #36 | |
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07-06-2012, 10:40 PM | #37 |
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Because they're ugly.
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07-06-2012, 10:56 PM | #38 | ||
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07-06-2012, 11:05 PM | #39 | |
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2) Okay. I wasn't trying to be flippant, just trying to lighten the conversation up a bit. People in this community remove the trademarks because, again, we don't claim credit for the artwork that we use. A question for you: if copying someone else's work and using it, without claiming credit for it, is stealing, then is it stealing for members of the OOTP community to use, without claiming credit and without removing trademarks, MLB/MiLB logos?
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5000+ Generic Logos Free for the Taking FREE: Uniforms and logos for 500+ teams spanning 1871-present Great Lakes League: 10 Conferences, 100 Teams Pre-OOTP 23 Custom Cap & Jersey Template v3.0 by Deft and NoPepper (with layers from other various artists) that I use: Caps, Jerseys Last edited by cephasjames; 07-06-2012 at 11:22 PM. |
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07-06-2012, 11:23 PM | #40 | |
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No it's not because if you read above:
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