Home | Webstore
Latest News: OOTP Update 20.7 - OOTP 20 Available - FHM 6 Available

Offseason Discount! SAVE 50%!

  

Go Back   OOTP Developments Forums > Out of the Park Baseball 19 > OOTP 19 - General Discussions

OOTP 19 - General Discussions Everything about the 2018 version of Out of the Park Baseball - officially licensed by MLB.com and the MLBPA.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-25-2018, 06:15 PM   #1
ZootMurph
Bat Boy
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 19
Thanks: 4
Thanked 12x in 6 posts
Base Stealing

Base stealing in this game is not realistic at all.

I tried recreating some of my favorite statistical seasons, like the 1980 season where San Diego had 3 players with 50+ stolen bases and Rickey Henderson had 100 stolen bases. The success percentage of stolen bases, on average, was over 15% less, on average.

Henderson is the perfect example. He stole 100 bases and was caught 26 times, a 79% success rate. In 20 replays, he never got near 75%, and was generally in the upper 60s%. OOTP is great in many ways, and has a lot of variety. But the base stealing in the game is just awful and has not changed from version to version. I've been playing since OOTP 10, and I've posted about this a few times in the past.

Yes, baseball has changed. But the fundamentals have not, only how the game is managed. Teams look for guys that can take walks and drive the ball. They don't care much about their speed or striking out. Does that mean that a guy couldn't steal 100 bases again? No. The right player with the right manager, that feat is still possible.

Look at the 2018 season. The top base stealers in each league had 43 and 45 stolen bases, with 9 and 10 CS respectively. They are the top base stealers, and they are stealing over 80% efficiency. But in this game getting 80% efficiency while trying to steal more than 20 times is nearly impossible, because of the game's mechanics. It really needs to be updated in this area.

Finally, let's look at the 130 SB season of Rickey Henderson in 1982. He was caught 42 times (42 TIMES!!!... more than most even try to steal). He tried to steal a base MORE than once per game (172 attempts in 149 games). Everyone knew, when he got on base, he would try to steal. He was STILL successful over 75% of the time. 33 of those 130 were stealing THIRD BASE, and twice he stole home. So, he tried stealing 3rd often as well, and still was over 75%. Oh, and he was only 23, still learning the game and learning how to steal bases. In OOTP, NO ONE WILL EVER match that total of stolen bases WITH a 75% success rate. It's impossible, and it's impossible because the game mechanics in the program are flawed and need to be adjusted.

I would really, really, really, REALLY like to see this addressed in OOTP 20.

Thanks for reading.
ZootMurph is offline   Reply With Quote
Thank you for this post:
Chomps (10-29-2018)
Old 10-25-2018, 06:45 PM   #2
spartacus007
Minors (Double A)
 
spartacus007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 109
Thanks: 307
Thanked 68x in 38 posts
How many times did you simulate the 1980 season?

There's a lot of randomness and variability built into the game. Simulating it just once doesn't tell you a whole lot.
__________________
spartacus007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2018, 07:16 PM   #3
sansterre
Minors (Triple A)
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 248
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 83
Thanked 155x in 73 posts
With the understanding that the following is anecdotal:

I just simmed the 1980 season on replay mode:

Ron Leflore: 101 SB, 16 CS (97 / 19 in real life)
Ricky Henderson: 100 SB, 24 CS (100 / 26 in real life)
Jerry Mumphrey, Ozzie Smith and Gene Richards combined for 177 SBs, 78, 51 and 48 respectively (170 combined in real life, 52, 57 and 61 respectively).

Not to say that your statement is invalid, but I don't see much evidence for the notion that OOTP doesn't model this well, at least not in this sim I did.
sansterre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2018, 07:42 PM   #4
BirdWatcher
Hall Of Famer
 
BirdWatcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 2,193
Thanks: 1,652
Thanked 870x in 617 posts
Also completely anecdotal and not meant as hard evidence of anything:
but, in my current fictional save one of my young speed demons in the most recent season completed stole 25 bases while being caught just 4 times (86% success rate) while a slightly more established base-stealer on my team stole 43 while being caught 17 times (a respectable 72%.)

That's just two guys in one season and certainly we are not talking about the number of attempts and successful steals that you are referencing with Rickey Henderson. Still, when I read this in your statement above- " But in this game getting 80% efficiency while trying to steal more than 20 times is nearly impossible, because of the game's mechanics. It really needs to be updated in this area."- I have to think, based upon my own admittedly limited experience, that this seems like a real stretch. I don't see this as anything close to being an impossibility. From what I've seen, depending of course upon season modifiers/strategies, etc. it is something that absolutely happens in OOTP.

Last edited by BirdWatcher; 10-26-2018 at 07:14 PM. Reason: word tense fixed
BirdWatcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2018, 01:17 PM   #5
Giants44
Hall Of Famer
 
Giants44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 2,305
Thanks: 119
Thanked 291x in 126 posts
I change these settings and feel pretty good about the results
Attached Images
Image 
__________________
"In a text sim - Immersion is everything"
-Me

"Judge a man not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character"
-Martin Luther King

"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts."
-Einstein

"The man who views the world at 50 the same as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life."
-Muhammad Ali

"Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything."
-Toby Harrah
Giants44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2018, 01:49 PM   #6
Trauma One
Minors (Rookie Ball)
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 30
Thanks: 47
Thanked 11x in 7 posts
It also depends upon the manager that they have and their tendency to send runners.
Trauma One is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2018, 03:30 PM   #7
NoOne
Hall Of Famer
 
NoOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 6,720
Thanks: 720
Thanked 1,833x in 1,481 posts
there's give and take with the chosen LTM/LT's for any given era.

you may need to increase # of steals as opposed to %success LTM for SB.

i can get ricky henderson-esque results for the players with >max speed/stealing ability and at ~75-80% or higher rates for those elite players.

it's simply about LTM/LTs used. you want higher percentage, it may take a historicall inaccurate League-wide Total (use modifier, don't change totals, only speaking of results as a 'total').

unfortunately, i cna't just give you me LTM/LT for stealing/stealing success. you'll have to trial and error to get what you want. (i doubt our choices on other settings would have the same results and i don't play challenge mode)

ootp has to make some decisions that will make some feel something is unrealistic while maintaining realism of some other factor you aren't currently focused on.

do you care more about league-wide results or individual results? i've transitioned to the latter over time. i set me LTM/LTs based on peak performances i want to see occur -- even if 1 time in 100 years or commonplace every year.

what's important to you? make it so with LTM/LT... from our standpoint, limitless possibilities. (but actually finite, albeit a large number)

Last edited by NoOne; 10-27-2018 at 03:31 PM.
NoOne is online now   Reply With Quote
Thank you for this post:
RchW (10-27-2018)
Old 10-28-2018, 08:51 PM   #8
Drstrangelove
Major Leagues
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 346
Thanks: 88
Thanked 154x in 103 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZootMurph View Post
Look at the 2018 season. The top base stealers in each league had 43 and 45 stolen bases, with 9 and 10 CS respectively. They are the top base stealers, and they are stealing over 80% efficiency. But in this game getting 80% efficiency while trying to steal more than 20 times is nearly impossible, because of the game's mechanics. It really needs to be updated in this area.
In 1980, only 12 out of 44 players (27%) with 20 or more SB had 80% success. In 1982, it was 13 out of 45 (29%.) In 2018, it was 14 out of 28, or 50%. That's real MLB. In my 2019 OOTP season, 11 out of 32 have an 80+% success rate with 20 or more steals, so 34%. My overall league rate is 70%, versus the real MLB of 72%. I'm not seeing the issue, but if I did, I could modify the league rate a couple % points.

None of this is really off though in the way it's implied.

In 1980, the league SB was only 67%, and it was only 66% in 1982. It's 72% in 2018. So SB rates were really worse back in the early 80's. With people running less and more conservatively today, it isn't real fair to compare SB rates from 2018 rates with 1980 rates. Players in the 1980's were really less successful stealing no matter if they ran a little or a lot. That's not a fault in OOTP.

Last edited by Drstrangelove; 10-28-2018 at 09:07 PM.
Drstrangelove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2018, 11:55 AM   #9
actionjackson
Hall Of Famer
 
actionjackson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 5,213
Thanks: 7,612
Thanked 3,125x in 1,917 posts
RL MLB 1980 SB% was 67.17% (3294 SB, 1610 CS). How does this compare with the season you simmed?
__________________
"Tests have shown that suspicious or hostile
Their lives need not be shortened
Truth be told, they can live a long, long while
Tickled to death by their importance...

He said, you made me scared too, I wasn't sure I was getting through
I gotta go
It's been a pleasure doing business with you"

- RIP Gord Downie (The Tragically Hip) February 6th, 1964 - October 17th, 2017

Last edited by actionjackson; 10-29-2018 at 11:57 AM.
actionjackson is online now   Reply With Quote
Thank you for this post:
FSUKegman (10-30-2018)
Old 10-29-2018, 12:51 PM   #10
Harry Hibbs
Minors (Double A)
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: San Jose
Posts: 129
Thanks: 90
Thanked 64x in 37 posts
FWIW.... my 2018 quick start ended with Dee Gordon nabbing 89 bags to lead the league and he was only CS 8 times. It actually disturbed me a little so I've dropped the modifier for 2019 hoping to bring these down a bit.
Harry Hibbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2018, 07:38 PM   #11
NoOne
Hall Of Famer
 
NoOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 6,720
Thanks: 720
Thanked 1,833x in 1,481 posts
fwiw, SB-attempts are one of the more volatile stats that you can control. the % stays ~5-6% range (+/- ~3% or so) if you don't change the LTMs for either or PCM's (like an era change, but not limited to)...

if you see ~67% one year, it may be able to go as high as 73. (30team avg not half the league.. sub-league would be larger % range) ... OR it could go as low as 61%... impossibly to know by looking at 1 year.

tweak as you want, but i'd suggest a longer-term approach if you don't want to be half-blind about what changes you make.

look over the last few years and make a more informed decision. also, if this is a real-players league and you are startign to get fictionally created players rising out of MiL, that will cause things to shift around in ways you can't predict too.. (well if you've restarted the league at least once, you can expect the same shifts for various stats)
NoOne is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:57 PM.

 

Major League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of MLB Advanced Media, L.P. Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with the permission of Minor League Baseball. All rights reserved.

The Major League Baseball Players Association (www.MLBPLAYERS.com ) is the collective bargaining representative for all professional baseball players of the thirty Major League Baseball teams and serves as the exclusive group licensing agent for commercial and licensing activities involving active Major League baseball players. On behalf of its members, it operates the Players Choice licensing program and the Players Choice Awards, which benefit the needy through the Major League Baseball Players Trust, a charitable foundation established and run entirely by Major League baseball players. Follow: @MLB_Players; @MLBPAClubhouse; @MLBPlayersTrust

Out of the Park Baseball is a registered trademark of Out of the Park Developments GmbH & Co. KG

Google Play is a trademark of Google Inc.

Apple, iPhone, iPod touch and iPad are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.

COPYRIGHT © 2017 OUT OF THE PARK DEVELOPMENTS. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

 

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © 2018 Out of the Park Developments