Bottlenecks and collections - Page 2

emilempenza · 03-12-2020, 08:17 AM

Not sure I can buy into the "it's nothing to do with us, it's supply and demand" when they are in control of the supply and can artificially create demand.

If you increase the amount of packs that are given as rewards, instead of PP, then supply for all cards increases. If you don't put silly missions like the Tigers ones where one specific diamond is needed (or one of two in the Braves mission), you've created the demand. So it's hard to really say it's a community created issue imo.

Sipimi · 03-12-2020, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marleigh

Again though, what's the point of creating content for 0.1% of the games players...

I really don't think that's the case as I see plenty of those SE cards in my weekly leagues. For example that specific bottleneck ultimately gives you Newhouser and Cabrera, and there are 2 Newhouser and 1 Cabrera this week in my 3 leagues and no mega-whales. I know it's too small a sample, but I'm pretty confident that out of 20000 teams, there are more than 20 of those guys.

One Great Matrix · 03-12-2020, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkgo

That is an extremely simple-minded take. Part of game design is knowing how people will play the game and designing around it.

It's a super simple-minded take, though.

JKap · 03-12-2020, 07:36 PM

I made this suggestion during the stream (which was well done be Kris) and believe that packs that guarantee a random player that is part of a collection should be offered in addition to the regular packs.

This will increase the supply of collection cards reducing price gouging and bottlenecks.

dkgo · 03-12-2020, 09:23 PM

every player is part of a collection

Barmy Fungy-Phipps · 03-12-2020, 11:43 PM

Unfortunately, extending supply isn't a guarantee. This sort of marketplace behavior crops up in MMOs all the time, in situation where the 'supply' is steady and continuous.

People who want to game the market do so by picking a resource and then controlling the supply themselves by buying and hoarding any amount that goes up for sale from anyone else, and then making it so that the only option to buy is from them, at the price point they chose. There are factors that shape their choices (they want a resource they can control and there is a demand for), but if this is the way they want to play, you can't stop that without altering the market itself.

Yes, poorly structured collection missions can make the problem worse, but the driving factor is definitely the people choosing to do this. That said, I have never seen an auction system in a game like this that didn't have those people, so I think there needs to be some kind of plan in place to help mitigate it.

Marleigh · 03-13-2020, 06:26 AM

One of the better systems i've seen in card collection games is the wildcard system in magic the gathering. You can get wildcards as pulls from packs or you are guaranteed them from opening a certain amount of packs.

Could easily be adapted to OOTP collection missions, being able to fill in a gap to a collection with a diamond wildcard or iron wildcard etc but it's a more consumer friendly approach rather than the predatory gambling system that is in place for games like OOTP and FIFA.

Kris Jardine · 03-13-2020, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkgo

every player is part of a collection

This statement is false. Edit - from a 21 standpoint

It also wasn't true for PT20 as we never updated collections to account for new content and such

Kris Jardine · 03-13-2020, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marleigh

One of the better systems i've seen in card collection games is the wildcard system in magic the gathering. You can get wildcards as pulls from packs or you are guaranteed them from opening a certain amount of packs.

Could easily be adapted to OOTP collection missions, being able to fill in a gap to a collection with a diamond wildcard or iron wildcard etc but it's a more consumer friendly approach rather than the predatory gambling system that is in place for games like OOTP and FIFA.

We've discussed the possibility of adding this to Perfect Team at some point in the future

Splitter24 · 03-13-2020, 12:07 PM

If you do, I nominate Eddie Gaedel and Herb Washington as Wild Card Irons.

Dogberry99 · 03-13-2020, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kris Jardine

It also wasn't true for PT20 as we never updated collections to account for new content and such

What you state is absolutely correct, but collection missions still managed to cover a surprising amount of content. Live team collection missions were updated, and collections were added for monthly content additions. I'd be curious to see any data on which cards were left out. I suspect its mostly special edition rewards, both tournaments and collections, with the odd card here and there that was overlooked from team historic missions (Peak John Clarkson?) or that played for a team that was excluded from team historic missions.

Tinkerman · 03-13-2020, 01:19 PM

How about the addition of a shop for cards? Somewhere that you could ultimately buy every card, but each card would come with a bunch of conditions to unlock it. By pricing accordingly, the devs could use it as a way to somewhat control the market and limit flagrant price hiking/hoarding. The player would gain a way to potentially avoid bottlenecks

rburgh · 03-13-2020, 08:28 PM

You guys are all missing the point. In any sort of collection, there is ALWAYS going to be one item that is harder to get than any of the others. And it's supposed to be hard to get, say, the Perfect Lou Boudreau or some of the other perfects that were collection rewards.

I got the 96 Colavito from a collection and he has been quite good for me. He has averaged .260/.373/.455 over 8 perfect leagues, and of course was even better at lower levels. What I think is funny is the collection where you have to buy 18 cards to get the reward of a 73 Edinson Volquez, or where you have to but at least one of the 83 Ed Charles or the 86 Bob Cerv to get the 80 Norm Siebern.

BigRed75 · 03-14-2020, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rburgh

You guys are all missing the point...where you have to but at least one of the 83 Ed Charles or the 86 Bob Cerv to get the 80 Norm Siebern.

But you have to get the 80 Norm Siebern to get the 100 Rube Waddell. And that's the main point.

Sipimi · 03-14-2020, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogberry99

What you state is absolutely correct, but collection missions still managed to cover a surprising amount of content. Live team collection missions were updated, and collections were added for monthly content additions. I'd be curious to see any data on which cards were left out. I suspect its mostly special edition rewards, both tournaments and collections, with the odd card here and there that was overlooked from team historic missions (Peak John Clarkson?) or that played for a team that was excluded from team historic missions.

Deleted

One Great Matrix · 03-15-2020, 05:44 PM

Would it make the destination seem more worthwhile if PT History were included in PT 3.0/future versions?

rburgh · 03-16-2020, 03:31 PM

As far as hoarding goes, if anyone believes that it can be prevented, just go to your local supermarket toilet paper aisle.

@BigRed - I saw that Siebern card for sale in the AH several times. I distinctly remember looking at it to see what the excitement was about.

BigRed75 · 03-16-2020, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rburgh

As far as hoarding goes, if anyone believes that it can be prevented, just go to your local supermarket toilet paper aisle.

@BigRed - I saw that Siebern card for sale in the AH several times. I distinctly remember looking at it to see what the excitement was about.

I did that as well - got the collection, didn't need the card, sold it on the AH to try to recoup some of the outlay...

bailey · 03-17-2020, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by One Great Matrix

Would it make the destination seem more worthwhile if PT History were included in PT 3.0/future versions?

Yes. There's an almanac feature in the base game that allows you to download a complete record of each season for later viewing, that is sadly lacking in PT. Not to mention, tracking for team batting and pitching leaders, and positional tracking. Nothing mentioned in the "road to release" so probably missing again.

One Great Matrix · 03-25-2020, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bailey

Yes. There's an almanac feature in the base game that allows you to download a complete record of each season for later viewing, that is sadly lacking in PT. Not to mention, tracking for team batting and pitching leaders, and positional tracking. Nothing mentioned in the "road to release" so probably missing again.

Well I mean...I just thought of it as an idea for some player like dkgo, who said something about the destiny being less than worthwhile.

As far as the advertising "become a legend", sometimes that can just happen, or it's on the individual to sort of be great...or sometimes you can have a site like baseball reference or a game like Perfect Team that reminds you of many great moments in (this case) baseball history.

...So I'm not sure it would be "missing". But if you opened OOTP 21/22 and could have some limited almanac/history of Perfect Team maybe people looking for a worthwhile destination would ascertain a sort of instant, cemented gratification.

03-12-2020, 08:17 AM	#21
emilempenza Minors (Double A) Join Date: Oct 2019 Posts: 110	Not sure I can buy into the "it's nothing to do with us, it's supply and demand" when they are in control of the supply and can artificially create demand. If you increase the amount of packs that are given as rewards, instead of PP, then supply for all cards increases. If you don't put silly missions like the Tigers ones where one specific diamond is needed (or one of two in the Braves mission), you've created the demand. So it's hard to really say it's a community created issue imo. __________________

03-13-2020, 06:26 AM	#27
Marleigh All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: UK Posts: 541	One of the better systems i've seen in card collection games is the wildcard system in magic the gathering. You can get wildcards as pulls from packs or you are guaranteed them from opening a certain amount of packs. Could easily be adapted to OOTP collection missions, being able to fill in a gap to a collection with a diamond wildcard or iron wildcard etc but it's a more consumer friendly approach rather than the predatory gambling system that is in place for games like OOTP and FIFA. __________________

03-13-2020, 12:07 PM	#30
Splitter24 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Willsboro, NY Posts: 2,897	If you do, I nominate Eddie Gaedel and Herb Washington as Wild Card Irons. __________________ Currently Reading: The Sympathizer by Viet Thanh Nguyen "Well, the game is afoot. I’ll take anal bum cover for 7,000." - "Sean Connery" SNL Celebrity Jeopardy R.I.P. Tommy Holmes 1917-2008

03-13-2020, 01:19 PM	#32
Tinkerman All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2019 Posts: 1,818	How about the addition of a shop for cards? Somewhere that you could ultimately buy every card, but each card would come with a bunch of conditions to unlock it. By pricing accordingly, the devs could use it as a way to somewhat control the market and limit flagrant price hiking/hoarding. The player would gain a way to potentially avoid bottlenecks __________________

03-15-2020, 05:44 PM	#36
One Great Matrix All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 1,782	Would it make the destination seem more worthwhile if PT History were included in PT 3.0/future versions? __________________

03-12-2020, 07:36 PM	#24
JKap Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Colorado Posts: 23	I made this suggestion during the stream (which was well done be Kris) and believe that packs that guarantee a random player that is part of a collection should be offered in addition to the regular packs. This will increase the supply of collection cards reducing price gouging and bottlenecks.

03-12-2020, 09:23 PM	#25
dkgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,152	every player is part of a collection

03-12-2020, 11:43 PM	#26
Barmy Fungy-Phipps Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 41	Unfortunately, extending supply isn't a guarantee. This sort of marketplace behavior crops up in MMOs all the time, in situation where the 'supply' is steady and continuous. People who want to game the market do so by picking a resource and then controlling the supply themselves by buying and hoarding any amount that goes up for sale from anyone else, and then making it so that the only option to buy is from them, at the price point they chose. There are factors that shape their choices (they want a resource they can control and there is a demand for), but if this is the way they want to play, you can't stop that without altering the market itself. Yes, poorly structured collection missions can make the problem worse, but the driving factor is definitely the people choosing to do this. That said, I have never seen an auction system in a game like this that didn't have those people, so I think there needs to be some kind of plan in place to help mitigate it.

03-13-2020, 08:28 PM	#33
rburgh All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 733	You guys are all missing the point. In any sort of collection, there is ALWAYS going to be one item that is harder to get than any of the others. And it's supposed to be hard to get, say, the Perfect Lou Boudreau or some of the other perfects that were collection rewards. I got the 96 Colavito from a collection and he has been quite good for me. He has averaged .260/.373/.455 over 8 perfect leagues, and of course was even better at lower levels. What I think is funny is the collection where you have to buy 18 cards to get the reward of a 73 Edinson Volquez, or where you have to but at least one of the 83 Ed Charles or the 86 Bob Cerv to get the 80 Norm Siebern.

03-16-2020, 03:31 PM	#37
rburgh All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 733	As far as hoarding goes, if anyone believes that it can be prevented, just go to your local supermarket toilet paper aisle. @BigRed - I saw that Siebern card for sale in the AH several times. I distinctly remember looking at it to see what the excitement was about.