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Old 05-31-2019, 04:11 PM   #1
Dogberry99
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Question Re: Positional Training Limitations

I have been training 2B Buddy Myer (77 OVR) in the other IF positions to allow for more roster flexibility, especially in the upcoming tournaments. He looks like a potential platoon option, making such training all the more important to get it out of the way faster (though he won't be very good anywhere defensively, but whatever).

However, I have noticed a significant disparity in projected ratings versus actual training. He trains to 69 at 1B and 37 at SS, both of which are within a point of the Positional Ratings Calculator's estimations.

However, he projects to train up to a 42 at 3B. He stopped at a rating of 34. He is approaching 500 games at 3B, and he has now played more games with a rating of 34 than it took for him to get there. This indicates, at least to me, that he has not stalled out so much as stopped.

Why is 34 the max he can train up to at 3B, and why is the positional ratings calculator so far off at this one position while being spot on with his other ratings (as well as the ratings of many, many other players that I've trained across multiple teams)? Are there any other players with comparable positional limitations?
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Old 05-31-2019, 11:57 PM   #2
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I'm the calculator creator. In the 9 months or so, the calculator has never been off by more than maybe 3 points. Are you sure you entered it in the correct order? Also, why are you playing someone who can only get to a 42? Yikes.
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Old 06-01-2019, 01:01 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by DonkeyKongSr View Post
I'm the calculator creator. In the 9 months or so, the calculator has never been off by more than maybe 3 points. Are you sure you entered it in the correct order? Also, why are you playing someone who can only get to a 42? Yikes.
Infield Range, Infield Error, Infield Arm, DP
49 91 40 56

He looks to have entered the data correctly.

It could be that he stalled or that there is the max training limitation that was mentioned a while back (and force the formula to be off).
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Old 06-01-2019, 01:37 AM   #4
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Infield Range, Infield Error, Infield Arm, DP
49 91 40 56
That arm at 3rd though
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Old 06-01-2019, 06:50 AM   #5
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Honestly, Myer's defense is terrible everywhere. If I'm using him, it is for his bat, which is very solid, and likely in a platoon situation, since his ratings are notably better against RHP. If he's going to be a part-time utility IF sub, I'd rather him already be trained up fully. Also, this is a theme team where Senators are some of the few cards I allow myself to choose from, and if I'm going to have my defense suffer for a bat, I'd rather it be in a corner position rather than up the middle :-)

I've been playing him at 3B for quite a long time with no further growth (about 300 games now at that rating, assuming it took him about 200 to reach the 34 rating). This is why I suspect a max limit rather than a stall. If it is a stall, then that means that some IF players can train as slow as catchers.
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Last edited by Dogberry99; 06-01-2019 at 06:52 AM.
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Old 06-27-2019, 02:16 AM   #6
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I doubt most people care much, but after 8634.1 Innings over 1005 games at 3B, Buddy Myer is still 34 at 3B.
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Old 08-15-2019, 01:45 PM   #7
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Peak Craig Biggio appears to fall into the same category as Buddy Myer.

On a different team (one where I highly prioritize offense, even at the expense of defense), I decided to train him up at 3B. The position ratings calculator says that he will train up to a rating of approximately 42. However, he appears to have stopped at a rating 21, thus creating an even bigger discrepancy between expected and actual ratings than the previous example of Buddy Myer.

Biggio's infield ratings are 68 range, 64 error, 38 arm, and 54 turn DP.
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Old 08-15-2019, 01:54 PM   #8
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Seems like in both of these cases, the player is getting punished from having a weak arm at 3rd base. Perhaps the position calculator is accurate for higher ratings, but doesn't take into account a hidden factor where OOTP punishes a noodle-arm at 3rd.
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Old 08-15-2019, 02:00 PM   #9
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Seems like in both of these cases, the player is getting punished from having a weak arm at 3rd base. Perhaps the position calculator is accurate for higher ratings, but doesn't take into account a hidden factor where OOTP punishes a noodle-arm at 3rd.
There definitely seems to be some sort of penalty or limitation tied to arm strength, yes.

Myer can achieve a higher positional rating at SS than 3B. I haven't trained Biggio at SS yet to see if he follows suit (he projects to be about a 48), but I expect it to be true for him as well.
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Old 08-15-2019, 02:05 PM   #10
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Seems like in both of these cases, the player is getting punished from having a weak arm at 3rd base. Perhaps the position calculator is accurate for higher ratings, but doesn't take into account a hidden factor where OOTP punishes a noodle-arm at 3rd.
Yeah, those are guys where past years would have been a 0 there but we changed it to not be so abrupt, but to still aggressively lower ratings. I think that change came for ootp19 maybe?

Ie. Someone with a 40 arm will map correctly, but a 39 arm will get dinged hard for being below the min mark we set.
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Old 08-15-2019, 11:15 PM   #11
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Yes, I think there's other low-water marks that throw off the ratings. I think Infield Error and/or Turn DP stops guys like Yelich, Bobby Bonilla & Steven Souza reaching their max ratings as per the calculator.

Yelich will train as predicted at 3B but nothing at 2B. Bonilla seems to max out before reaching the calculator's estimate at 2B & SS from memory and Souza seems to max out at 2B also. They all have really low Infield Error or Turn DP ratings (20-25 range).
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Old 08-17-2019, 05:52 AM   #12
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When training an infielder to play 1b, what is the minimum height for this converted SS or 2B to be a successful 1B?
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Old 08-17-2019, 09:44 AM   #13
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6'0" for first
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Old 08-17-2019, 10:21 AM   #14
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6'0" for first
I wouldn't necessarily agree with that. There's some guys that make OK 1st basemen that are under 6'0, just because I wouldn't play them anywhere else. Billy Grabarkewitz and Steve Sax come to mind.
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Old 08-19-2019, 10:50 AM   #15
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When training an infielder to play 1b, what is the minimum height for this converted SS or 2B to be a successful 1B?
We would first need to define the term successful.
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