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OOTP 14 - General Discussions Discuss the new 2013 version of Out of the Park Baseball here! |
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01-30-2013, 12:15 PM | #21 |
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Wonder if OOTP14 will come with a warning never to use the "pitch to contact" feature if one is using the MLB quickstart and managing the Tigers.
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01-30-2013, 12:57 PM | #22 | |
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01-30-2013, 01:10 PM | #23 |
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FWIW, there was a concerted effort here in Houston to have Roy Oswalt do more "pitching to contact" late in his career, mostly I remember, to cut down on the stress and potential injury related to back issues.
I remember it being a bit painful to watch and the results definitely show, see 2009 here, Roy Oswalt Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com. A lot less curveballs in strikeout counts and a lot more fastballs (or rather strikes) early in the count. This will be interesting to monitor. Oswalt could make it "work" because he had very good control and command to begin with, and as I said, the sole motivation was maintaining his health, which it did seem to do. OTOH, so many marginal pitchers are "head cases", that asking them to try this, when they're struggling just to maintain focus and stay in the game, seems contrary to the norm, at least in real life. |
01-30-2013, 01:22 PM | #24 | |
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I think the problem with this whole "pitch to contact" thing is that it means different things to different people. To me, it should mean attacking the strike zone to try to get quicker outs. It has nothing to do with trying to get a ground ball in a double play situation. That's a whole different strategy that involves throwing sinkers or two-seamers or a breaking ball down and away, or trying to jam hitters and get the ball put in play on the ground. Pitching to contact should mean attacking the strike zone early in at bats, hoping to get quick outs, whether it be ground ball, fly ball, pop up, whatever kind of out. It's a strategy that's most effective with a big lead when nibbling or trying to make the perfect pitch isn't necessary. If I'm up 10-1 in the seventh inning and Miguel Cabrera is leading off, I'm attacking the strike zone and making him earn his way on base rather than nibbling at the corners or trying to get him to chase and risking a walk. Even if he homers, it's still 10-2 with nobody on base. I'd rather that than a leadoff walk that could spark a rally. Sure, a leadoff hit could do the same, but at least if the ball is put in play, my defense can make a play. There's no way to defend a walk. In simpler terms, pitching to contact should mean I'm going right at this guy and making him earn his way on. |
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01-30-2013, 01:24 PM | #25 | |
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01-30-2013, 01:33 PM | #26 | |
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To me, "pitch to contact" seems more about the pitcher's underlying skill set, and not about a conscious command that a manager would give him from the dugout. But there are certainly others on this board with more real-life baseball experience than me.
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01-30-2013, 02:08 PM | #27 | |
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If you think about it, you shouldn't need to tell your best pitcher or pitchers to do this because they're talented enough. Do we really think that Justin Verlander has to be told to pitch to contact with a big lead? It's that young guy who has a tendency to nibble or a guy with poor control who you have to coax into being aggressive. |
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01-30-2013, 04:52 PM | #28 |
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If effective "pitch to contact" means that a pitcher will get the ball into play faster (and get outs), then this would reduce the average pitches per batter. A manager may opt for this strategy especially where he wants his starter to last deeper in to the game, which might be needed if the bullpen has been over worked in recent games. Just a thought.
And here is one sportswriter's definition of "pitch to contact" which I think is reasonable: "For those desiring a precise definition of pitch to contact, start with this: a pitcher who is trying to get hitters to put the ball in play, preferably on the ground, within three pitches. That inherently means the pitcher isn't thinking strikeout, but rather making his best pitch in a hittable zone."
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01-30-2013, 09:06 PM | #29 |
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I think some posts above are making way too big a deal about what is essentially a minor addition to the game, and others are understanding the purpose perfectly.
In real life, a manager can opt to 'call a game' from the dugout. You can't do that in OOTP (at least not yet), but an OOTP manager should at least be able to give some vague instructions to his pitcher. A 'pitch to contact' option at least allows the manager to tell his pitcher to try to stay in the zone, to keep his pitch count down, and to not throw 'chase pitches'. As I pointed out above, it's not an option you'd want to use very often, since strikeouts are good. But it at least adds to the options available when playing out games, and I can't see how that's a bad thing. |
01-30-2013, 09:41 PM | #30 | |||
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"Hitting is timing. Pitching is upsetting timing"-Warren Spahn. Last edited by Curve Ball Dave; 01-30-2013 at 09:42 PM. |
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01-30-2013, 10:39 PM | #31 | |
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A manager can presume to call the game from the dugout but it must match the pitchers capabilty or it's not realistic.
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01-30-2013, 11:53 PM | #32 | |
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I'd rather we assume it works as it should until we see otherwise, and discuss its merits on that basis. |
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01-31-2013, 12:29 AM | #33 | |
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My question now would be why pitching to contact became such a priority? What evidence exists that it works? So many pitchers can't throw strikes with a big lead. This is casually observable. Why is that not clearly identified and implemented in the game? Come to think of it SP in OOTP seem to get more decisions and wins than RL. Perhaps it is because they don't give up cheap hits and runs with big leadsthe way RL pitchers do.
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01-31-2013, 02:30 AM | #34 | ||
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I don't follow. First, I haven't observed what you have about decisions for pitchers in OOTP. If you have any proof that's the case, then that means there's a problem that should be fixed. But if there is a problem, there are many far more likely causes than how pitchers in OOTP pitch with a big lead. It seems more likely it would have to do with how innings are distributed among SPs. If OOTP starters go 5+ innings too often, you're more likely to get SP wins, for example. |
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01-31-2013, 11:16 AM | #35 | |
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02-01-2013, 07:56 AM | #36 | |
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02-01-2013, 08:05 AM | #37 |
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This would be great for sinkerballers....and they would stand out like the Knuckleballers now
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02-01-2013, 08:29 AM | #38 | |
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This trend of having to start analyzing every burp that happens in a dugout for it's impact on a game is silly. My only question: did they win or lose. Even with all these new stats, the best teams still lose around 60-70 games and the worst teams generally lose around 90 games, just as it has been the entire history of the sport so I really don't see where all these sabermetric stats have made any difference. Just people with too much time on their hands looking for something to do. Last edited by StyxNCa; 02-01-2013 at 08:33 AM. |
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02-01-2013, 09:42 AM | #39 |
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If you're sitting in a GM office deciding whether to invest $100 million in a player, you probably want at least a bit of information about how that player will affect your chances of winning games. And our understanding of what goes into winning games has evolved a lot over the last few decades.
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02-01-2013, 12:00 PM | #40 | |
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