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11-22-2019, 04:30 PM | #1 |
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Can someone explain to me.....
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If a man is guilty 4 what goes on inside of his mind, then let me get the electric chair 4 all my future crimes. - Prince Batdance June 7, 1958 - Apr 21, 2016 |
11-22-2019, 04:49 PM | #2 |
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There isn't much in the way of details in the article.
It's a business. If Ellsbury got treatment that is outside of what he was allowed to do based on the CBA then the Yankees would be dumb not to make this move. We don't know how legitimate their claim is though. |
11-22-2019, 05:09 PM | #3 |
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Wow, that's a court case if ever I saw one. I agree with Rain King that the Yankees should do what they can to get out from under this albatross. What a waste of millions upon millions of dollars on a malingerer.
At least this should seal the deal on whether he ever would play for the Yankees if he were to miraculously recover and maintain his health. Not now, I'd say. Look for a settlement in the form of some sort of contract buyout and release. Then Ellsbury will be free to bring his act to another MLB team. Beware! EDIT: Actually, it wasn't clear in that article but it is in this one: Ellsbury has been cut so he will not be back, period. So long, pal. Thank for next to nothing, given your huge salary. (Greg Bird, whom I have less harsh feelings for, is also gone. Another guy who kept tripping over his own feet, somewhat literally, but at least he didn't cost $153 million.) https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...-dfa-greg-bird
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- Bru Last edited by Déjà Bru; 11-22-2019 at 05:17 PM. |
11-22-2019, 05:10 PM | #4 |
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For the Yanks actions to hold merit, in my book, Ellsbury would have had to get treatment that would deliberately keep him from playing. Otherwise, they are a bunch of equine glutes.
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If a man is guilty 4 what goes on inside of his mind, then let me get the electric chair 4 all my future crimes. - Prince Batdance June 7, 1958 - Apr 21, 2016 |
11-22-2019, 05:24 PM | #5 |
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I hear you, putting aside my Yankee fanhood. Look at it this way, as I do: That's not all Yankees money that they are trying to save. Some of it is profits, yes, but some of it is pass-through money from fans like you and I paying higher prices to see their teams because of greed. Players' greed as well as owners' greed. Ellsbury has been sitting on his can for two years while taking down $50-$60 million. Not so much for the Yankees, but for myself, I'd like the team to get around paying him anymore if, if, he violated the terms of his contract. Obviously there is a chance of this or else the Yankees would not be using this gambit.
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11-22-2019, 05:30 PM | #6 | |
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Quote:
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If a man is guilty 4 what goes on inside of his mind, then let me get the electric chair 4 all my future crimes. - Prince Batdance June 7, 1958 - Apr 21, 2016 |
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11-22-2019, 05:44 PM | #7 |
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Well, as RK said, it's a business. The law will decide whether the contract has been violated or not - the Yankees may be equine glutes but they're not stupid - and it basically comes down to that: the law.
Funny how you and I see this situation differently. I think you are feeling that Ellsbury is being treated unfairly. I, on the other hand, feel that he has been treating the ballclub and its fans unfairly - his injuries and his rehabilitations have been vaguely documented as far as I can tell. If a guy got clonked on the head and was ruled ineligible to ever play again from that day forward, then yes, the rules of the game are to pay him the rest of his contract. In Ellsbury's case, however - and I am willing to listen to arguments to the contrary - he seems like he wasn't eager to get back on the field. Here is the summary from your article: Ellsbury injured an oblique muscle on his right side early during spring training in 2018, developed a bad back and had hip surgery on Aug. 6 last year to repair a torn labrum in his left hip. He experienced plantar fasciitis in his right foot during his rehab program before spring training this year. He never recovered from any of this? He was out for all of 2019 with plantar fasciitis? That doesn't seem right but like I said, I'm willing to listen to his defense. My feeling, though, is that it would be fair not to pay Ellsbury any more money. Not legally speaking, mind you; just what seems fair to me. That's why I don't blame the Yankees for trying to do something about it, not because I am a Yankees fan. And it is a business.
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- Bru Last edited by Déjà Bru; 11-22-2019 at 05:47 PM. |
11-22-2019, 06:02 PM | #8 |
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I don't deny the Yanks have the right to do it. I don't confirm or deny what Ellsbury has done to get on the field. But just because someone has the right to do something, doesn't mean they are right to do something. The luxury tax is there to prevent teams from overpaying players. The Yanks thumbed their noses at it and paid for it. That is the risk they willingly took. And lost. You can't bet all your chips on red & then take them back when it lands black.
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If a man is guilty 4 what goes on inside of his mind, then let me get the electric chair 4 all my future crimes. - Prince Batdance June 7, 1958 - Apr 21, 2016 |
11-22-2019, 06:04 PM | #9 |
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Let me know if this is correct. Ellsbury has missed the passed 2 seasons due to injury and he has been using Yankee approved medical staff/procedures but is still injured. So he decides to use a different medical expert without Yankee approval.
If this is correct, I hope Ellsbury gets every cent, and I do not even care about Ellsbury. The Yankees were really dumb to agree to that contract but apparently they have plenty of money to take these risks so let them pay, assuming the above is correct. Last edited by Reed; 11-22-2019 at 06:15 PM. |
11-22-2019, 07:57 PM | #10 |
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Compare these two generic scenarios:
1) Player/team sign a contract. Player's subsequent performance exceeds expectations and as such, he is underpaid. He then refuses to honor the terms of his contract and holds out. 2) Player/team sign a contract. Player's subsequent performance fails to meet expectations and therefore, he is overpaid. The team has no recourse and is stuck paying him. In the case of #1, opinion is usually split among those who support the player (usually most of those in the media, including all ex-players, and a not-insigificant minority of fans in general), and those who support the team (a minority of the media and typically a majority of the fans). However, in scenario #2 there is no such split opinion because - as noted - there is nothing to be split about - the team is simply stuck with honoring the contract. So while the details in the Ellsbury matter are more-specific than the generic examples above and may not make the issue cut and dry, I for one like the fact that a team is attempting to use the actual terms of the contract to get out of it, which IMO is in stark contrast to the all-too-often-seen player-reneging scenario. And if the Yankees' actions make high-priced free agents less-likely to accept the Yankees' money, that's fine with me Anyways, I'm guessing we can agree that this is headed to court or settlement, and that they Yankees likely will be paying something. |
11-23-2019, 06:39 AM | #11 |
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I agree that players need to play out their contracts instead of holding out for more money. It will be an interesting case but will probably be settled out of court.
Last edited by Reed; 11-23-2019 at 06:40 AM. |
11-23-2019, 07:26 AM | #12 |
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They run a business, so if they think they have a legal case to not pay him, it makes sense from their end to try.
I mean, I don't know the whole story, but I seriously doubt they'll win. Unless if whatever "alternate" therapy he tried actually prevented him from playing, they won't have a case. And even if it did lead to one of the things that made him not play, my not-a-lawyer take is that as long as whatever he did was "reasonable" to try to get back to playing, I would imagine there's some sort of provision to prevent that from invalidating the contract. Like, if Correa was being massively overpaid and hadn't explicitly gotten permission to go to his massage therapist where he got hurt worse, technically speaking that might be a violation of his contract seeking "unauthorized treatment". But you have to assume that no judge would let the team off the hook for something like that. Now, not sure if that's anywhere close to what happened here. But I don't fault either side for trying to fight this. |
11-23-2019, 09:59 AM | #13 |
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That's a reasonable assessment. Unless it says "This contract will be rendered null and void, including any and all future remuneration, should the player so much as set foot in a doctor's office without management's permission," I doubt a judge is going to merely set it aside. Not unless it is proven that such treatment damaged the goods to the tune of $26MM.
So, come to think of it that way, leaving fairness to either side out of consideration, why would the Yankees try this maneuver?
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11-23-2019, 10:37 AM | #14 |
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Some more detail via MLBTR
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/...as-rumors.html If this gets into a pissing match Ellsbury's camp could scrutinize any and all treatment authorized by the Yankees for even the tiniest error and use that to say they ruined his career. Dangerous ground to tread on. Guaranteed contracts are a strikeable issue.
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11-23-2019, 10:39 AM | #15 |
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Obviously we don't know all the details. I'm assuming it was more than a random doctor's visit, and if they think they have an angle to clear 20+M off the cap, worth it for them to take it.
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11-23-2019, 11:08 AM | #16 |
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I imagine the Yankees have a few lawyers on staff and it probably costs them very little to try to void the contract since the lawyers are already getting paid. This is just a guess though.
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11-23-2019, 12:00 PM | #17 |
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I feel like I've heard other stories before (one involving a Tiger, I think) about players being contracted to use team doctors or team approved doctors and going outside of those bounds becomes a breach of contract, or at least unapproved or something like that. Those stories dealt with much smaller cases. But if Ellsbury breached his contract than the Yankees have every right to do what they're doing.
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11-25-2019, 04:21 PM | #18 | |
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Quote:
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11-25-2019, 09:47 PM | #19 |
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