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Old 02-16-2020, 03:41 PM   #1
Mizzery
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Three team slow grow

Inspired by other posters, when 20 went on sale over the holidays for $4.99, I bought a second license with the goal of having three test FTP teams.

One team is power- maximizing the park for HR, minimizing for everything else, trying to stock a lineup with high POW and a staff with high MOV.

The second team is contact and batting average, minimizing power and maximizing average in ball park effects, playing a lineup with high CON for hitters and high CON for pitchers (in an attempt to limit opposing base runners.)

The third team is run prevention- reducing ballpark factors across the board, playing with high defensive factors in the lineup and a staff with both strong MOV and CON.

Same basic rules across the board for all teams- build an initial lineup with the starter packs and whatever players suit the test from the AH with the given 1,000 PP (generally low end silver cards). No purchasing of packs, collections or tournaments.

Avoid incremental upgrades, buying only one player every two weeks from whatever PP were earned. This means an extensive run of iron players slowly being surrounded by diamonds.

After the first four weeks:

The Batting Average team generated 64,794 in its first four weeks plus entry pool week, adding Sherry Magee and Kent Tekulve along the way. While the intent was to grow slowly, the team is already in Silver after a 105 win season and championship in Iron followed by a 97 win season in Bronze, despite 10 Iron players, including two SP. The team has finished 1st or 2nd in BA and OBA every season.

The run prevention team generated 50,185 in four weeks plus entry pool, adding Joe Cronin and Charlie Gehringer so far. That team also won an Iron championship with 116 wins and is coming off a 97 win season in bronze, with 5 Iron players remaining on the roster. This team has finished 1st or 2nd in ZR and Def Efficiency each season.

Bringing up the rear is the Power team, generating 37,837 in four weeks plus entry pool, and adding Dizzy Trout and Mel Ott. That team finished its fourth week as a Bronze WC, and still has 11 Iron players on its active roster. The team has finished between 2nd and 4th each year in HR, as so far power seems harder to dominate and generates fewer PP.

Even when playing with a group of Iron cards and deliberately trying to reduce the pace of advancement, seems almost impossible to not sail through Iron and Bronze quickly, even with only 1 or 2 Diamond cards.
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Old 02-17-2020, 08:49 AM   #2
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Your best chance of staying at a lower level and accumulating points is to load up on offense while putting up the worst possible pitching staff. And terrible defense.
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Old 02-17-2020, 09:22 AM   #3
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I like his approach. Surprised how much income the deadball-defense team is producing.

Including income from selling-flipping in these totals, or keeping every acquired card?

For the prevention team, wouldn't it be slower-developing if you went for corner players before shortstop? Draft order something like 1b-3b-C-RF-LF-2B-CF-SS?

P.S. You got a Cronin for <25k? Impressive.
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Old 02-17-2020, 04:40 PM   #4
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Nice job. It's great to see others recognizing the power of matching the right players to the right park factors.

Tip for the power team - try focusing hard on the "eye" rating, even prioritized over POW. With the reduced contact modifiers, walks are the best way to get on base consistently so that your homers aren't all solo shots. And get Trout asap.
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Old 02-18-2020, 04:30 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by chazzycat View Post
Nice job. It's great to see others recognizing the power of matching the right players to the right park factors.

Tip for the power team - try focusing hard on the "eye" rating, even prioritized over POW. With the reduced contact modifiers, walks are the best way to get on base consistently so that your homers aren't all solo shots. And get Trout asap.
I hadnít thought of combining EYE plus POW for the power team, especially because most hitters with 80+ POW rating strike out frequently. Are there many high POW/high EYE combo players?

Not a complaint, more of a wish, but would love to see the sort functionality on the AH expanded to allow for search functionality for multiple screens.
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Old 02-18-2020, 05:21 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Mizzery View Post
I hadn’t thought of combining EYE plus POW for the power team, especially because most hitters with 80+ POW rating strike out frequently. Are there many high POW/high EYE combo players?

Not a complaint, more of a wish, but would love to see the sort functionality on the AH expanded to allow for search functionality for multiple screens.
I'd say the POW/EYE player archetype is at least as common as the CON/GAP archetype. Also, avoidK (K%) and Eye (BB%) are not the same thing.
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Old 02-19-2020, 11:41 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemandria View Post
I like his approach. Surprised how much income the deadball-defense team is producing.

Including income from selling-flipping in these totals, or keeping every acquired card?

For the prevention team, wouldn't it be slower-developing if you went for corner players before shortstop? Draft order something like 1b-3b-C-RF-LF-2B-CF-SS?

P.S. You got a Cronin for <25k? Impressive.
I was fortunate and bought the 97 OVR Cronin for 14,750, or a little over half of the AWB.

One good thing about this kind of team test is that it doesn't lock you into any specific player, just a type of player, so when I add a new card every two weeks or so I can look for the biggest bargain available that fits the meta.
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Old 02-19-2020, 01:56 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Thundercrack View Post
Your best chance of staying at a lower level and accumulating points is to load up on offense while putting up the worst possible pitching staff. And terrible defense.
Just saw this in one of my leagues. That team managed to stay around 40 years in iron before deciding to climb the ladder. One year they scored 12.5 runs per game on average. That strategy must have generated a lot of points per season!
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Old 02-19-2020, 10:51 PM   #9
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You can't tank, if you never even make the playoffs. What kind of roster makes this possible? Nobody is scoring 12.5 runs per game in iron tournaments, are they? Noteworthy is that 2057 coincides with the Christmas sale on PP.
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Old 02-19-2020, 11:46 PM   #10
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You can't tank, if you never even make the playoffs. What kind of roster makes this possible? Nobody is scoring 12.5 runs per game in iron tournaments, are they? Noteworthy is that 2057 coincides with the Christmas sale on PP.
Note that they also gave up 11.25 runs that year, so probably 14 Babe Ruth in the lineup and 11 Sugar Cain on the mound.

I believe there were some good collections released around that date too (Phillies, Giants, Mets).
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Old 02-20-2020, 11:50 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by QuantaCondor View Post
I'd say the POW/EYE player archetype is at least as common as the CON/GAP archetype. Also, avoidK (K%) and Eye (BB%) are not the same thing.
Yep, generally speaking the power/eye players are not super hard to find. A lot of lives actually fit pretty well on offense. The middle infield can be a bit challenging.

The strikeouts are something you just accept with this strategy. Not much you can do about it. If you want power, strikeouts just come with that. Where the eye rating really helps, is your strikeout/walk ratio. For example I just checked my team and even though they do strike out a ton (tops in the league) they are also tops in walks. So their strikeout to walk ratio is not bad really, under 2:1. Whereas on the pitching side, my pitchers are over 4:1.

The big mistake everyone makes that leads to the whole "live players suck" belief, is that live pitchers absolutely do not work with this strategy. When you set up your park to favor power, live pitchers will simply get destroyed by their low MOV. So your pitchers need to be historicals with high MOV and also CON to prevent walks. Luckily the collections have really lowered the prices on such pitchers, making it more viable than ever. Guys like Matt Morris, Tommy John, etc. could take a team to perfect and cost under 10k.

When your pitchers aren't walking guys or giving up homers, that leaves base hits as the chief means of scoring runs. This is where the negative park effects come into play. The .9 factor for batting average is such a huge boon to your pitchers...you should find yourself consistently beating FIP by about half a run, even if your defense is just average. That is huge. And since your offensive players are getting on base via the walk, which isn't affected at all by the penalty, this is basically how you can have your cake and eat it too.
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Old 03-01-2020, 11:29 PM   #12
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Update on test concepts after six weeks:

The Defense/Run Prevention test is leading the way, with 11,349 PP generated per week, with two 19k weeks and 100+ win seasons along the way. After three weeks in Iron and three weeks in Bronze, the team is now moving on to Silver after losing in the Bronze semifinals after a 104 win season. The spend so far has gone into the left side of the defense, with 99 Jose Bautista, 97 Joe Cronin and 95 Charlie Gehringer, who were acquired for a total of 57k PP over six weeks. No money has been spent yet on pitching.

The smallball test of high contact hitters and high control pitchers has generated 10,547 PP per week on average, and made it into Silver after 4 weeks after winning an Iron championship and then a 99 win in Bronze. The team has been stationary in Silver winning 65-70 games a season, which is desirable since the whole idea was to avoid incremental progress and try to build slowly. The spend has been spread across 98 Sherry Magee, 94 Pete Alexander, and 90 Kent Tekulve for a total of 68.5k PP. Magee has been spectacular, but the team has done fine so far with lower end players like Mickey Vernon and Harry Walker.

The Power test of high power hitters and high MOV pitchers brings up the rear, at 8,075 PP per week. This is the only test still in Bronze, although the team has been a wild card team 3 years in a row. Spend has been on 92 Dizzy Trout, 94 Mel Ott, and 96 Aaron Judge, for a total of $32.8k- lower PP earned=lower players acquired.

All three teams are finishing in first each year on their targeted categories, i.e. BA and OBA (smallball), Def Eff and ZR (defense), and HR (power).
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Old 03-02-2020, 12:52 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Mizzery View Post
I hadnít thought of combining EYE plus POW for the power team, especially because most hitters with 80+ POW rating strike out frequently. Are there many high POW/high EYE combo players?

Not a complaint, more of a wish, but would love to see the sort functionality on the AH expanded to allow for search functionality for multiple screens.
When a guy strikes out, he doesn't GIDP. And some of the slower guys serve them up quite nicely for elite defenses.
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Old 03-03-2020, 05:48 AM   #14
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A very informative tutorial. I bought 2 PT21 licenses, the plan is to run one license this way, with directed acquisitions and the other with collection missions targeting high-end players who fit the 3 team profiles as well. I will open a dynasty report blog to cover all 6 teams' significant transactions and results.

Quote:
Your best chance of staying at a lower level and accumulating points is to load up on offense while putting up the worst possible pitching staff. And terrible defense.
Or, on the pitching and defense squad, playing Irons in the corners and at DH for as long as possible, and having an Iron bullpen.

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Old 03-03-2020, 05:56 AM   #15
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You can't tank, if you never even make the playoffs. What kind of roster makes this possible?
Easy enough. Starting rotation of Sugar Cain, Luis Escobar, Jeff Suppan, Josh Rogers, and Armando Galarraga. Bullpen of any 5 of the myriad 42 and under relievers - to make sure that they are all fatigued at all times after the first week of the season.
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