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Old 12-15-2019, 02:59 PM   #21
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Not to derail the tourney discussion, but on the earlier topic of league pyramid shape and t***ing, I think both problems would be solved if promotion/relegation were 6 up, 8 down instead of 4 up, 2/4 down. The current system operates on the Peter Principle. Everyone slowly gets pushed up to the level of their incompetence, and with little chance of dropping back down, they either t*** to ensure relegation or quit out of boredom/frustration with annual 90+ loss seasons. I gave this a bit of thought and settled on 6 up, 8 down for these reasons:
  1. More movement - Judging from forum complaints (and t***ing behavior), people with bad teams in higher leagues would rather drop down and earn more points to improve, and people avoid improving their teams in lower leagues to avoid advancing too quickly. Having more teams moving up and down the pyramid both reduces the need to t*** to drop down and reduces the fear of incremental improvements to move up. People can keep the pedal to the metal and see whether their team can hack it in a higher league, with the comfort of knowing that they'll land right back in the lower level if the answer is "no."
  2. Playoff t***ing - As people have noted, t***ing in the regular season helps people move down a level, but t***ing in the playoffs helps people avoid advancing and keep racking up record-setting PP earnings in a lower level with a laughably dominant team. Having 6 teams advance means each sub-league's best regular-season team is guaranteed to advance (as well as the 2 LCS teams), so t***ers could not avoid promotion simply by throwing a few all-important playoff games. If they insist on t***ing, it would be in the regular season at the cost of some portion of the PP winnings that motivate the behavior in the first place.
  3. Tapered pyramid - If and when the league pyramid ever reaches its steady state, the ratio of the size of one level versus the next level down is the ratio of the number of teams promoted/relegated from each league. The current system has more promotion than relegation at most levels, meaning teams are constantly moving upward, technically toward an inverted pyramid. The current structure is not really an inverted pyramid but a uniform column, because new teams keep starting at the bottom and 4 up, 2/4 down is relatively slow. If it were 6 up, 8 down, each level would be 75% as large as the one below it (meaning, e.g., 30.4% in Iron, 7.2% in Perfect), and teams would reach the appropriate level faster.
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Old 12-15-2019, 03:33 PM   #22
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@Threnodas

I was thinking along the same lines also. Not so much as increasing promotions but absolutely increase relegation. The number of teams that move up and down are small and it creates some stagnation i feel.

You make some good points on increasing promotions and it may possibly deter some teams from being blatant tankers. Having the level structure become a proper pyramid and having it organically happen seems to make a lot of sense.

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Old 12-15-2019, 04:26 PM   #23
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yes, there absolutely needs to be more movement if they are sticking with the pro/rel model

no one looks at relegation as a bad thing. it's a chance to have fun the next year
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Old 12-15-2019, 06:17 PM   #24
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Another perspective on the current relegation ladder: It's a little too easy in Perfect. In fact, the change in talent between the levels is really gradual, and it cheapens the experience of getting to Perfect and competing for Perfect WS titles. I would absolutely love a proper pyramid with a huge number of relegated teams from each Perfect league (at least 8, as mentioned above), so a season in Perfect is exciting and not just another day at the office by the time you finally get there.
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Old 12-15-2019, 07:27 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skep View Post
I agree that aspects of PT and tournaments are tedious and need major UI improvements. I disagree that tournaments should be an accessory to the core game. PT and tournaments are the future of this game.

There's little growth to be had with improving the core game. I asked two of my buddies into baseball the same question, had they played this game. They both said they had picked up a previous release but found the core game too much for them. No matter how much you improve the core game, you will not make these two into loyal customers. They're not interested in figuring out options or the rule 5 draft. They want to open packs and make line-ups. Improve PT and tournaments and I bet they'd both be dropping dollars into the game.

Some of you will hate this, but the future of this game is in appealing to casuals.

I fall into the PT casual category. I have enjoyed the core game before but don't have the time to get engrossed in it to try to build a winner like I used to. I only have smaller blocks of time. I enjoy Monopoly, but only have time to play Yahtzee. At the end of the day, both are fun.
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Old 12-15-2019, 11:29 PM   #26
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I have never properly played the core game. I bought 19 during the 2018 All Star break and immediately realized it would be a long, long time before I could devote the time necessary to learn the basics of this game. Then I randomly saw the announcements about the new form of game play, which eased me into the game.

I now will sometimes mess around with the 1927 Yankees or the 1922 Browns to get Challenge Packs for my teams occasionally, but I don't really care about the game. Its too cumbersome, both in the detail and size of the content and in the memory drag on my computer, which requires a restart after about one full season of core game play.

I'm going to buy 21, but I do not plan to play the core game.
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Old 12-16-2019, 02:01 AM   #27
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Quote:
no one looks at relegation as a bad thing. it's a chance to have fun the next year
And make more money.

Such a weird quirk of the design, and really unfortunate for the new people coming in.
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Old 12-16-2019, 02:31 AM   #28
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And make more money.

Such a weird quirk of the design, and really unfortunate for the new people coming in.
Not really, only if a team tanks does it screw things up. Competing against players trying to advance makes it a good challenge. If they had way more relegations like maybe 10 per league or even 12 teams would have a much better chance of finding the level they compete best at. The teams that survived the relegation would feel they earned it and even feel they might have a chance at making the playoffs.

Right now it is too easy to do poorly and stay at a level your team is out classed at, Again just my opinion but All my three teams advanced and I won 2 of 3 titles with them. It wasn't a huge challenge and all my teams are FTP. There is no penalty for being mediocre.

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Old 12-16-2019, 04:49 AM   #29
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Quote:
There is no penalty for being mediocre.

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Of course not, because it's to your financial advantage to remain at the bottom.
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Old 12-16-2019, 08:09 AM   #30
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Being mediocre is the worst thing that can happen because you don't earn any points and you can't drop down to where you will earn points.
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Old 12-16-2019, 08:12 AM   #31
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Also, I don't want to make a new thread for this but talking about fixes for next season:

THE ALL-STAR GAME ****ING SUCKS

It will **** up your rotations rest and play your position players AT A COMPLETELY NEW POSITION, which then gives them a tiny bit of training and a rating of like 2, BUT THEN YOUR AI MANAGER WILL START PLAYING THEM THERE IN GAMES

I know that if you happen to be online at the right time you can force your player strategy to rest for a day, but that is a stupid workaround.
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Old 12-16-2019, 08:30 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkgo View Post
Also, I don't want to make a new thread for this but talking about fixes for next season:

THE ALL-STAR GAME ****ING SUCKS

It will **** up your rotations rest and play your position players AT A COMPLETELY NEW POSITION, which then gives them a tiny bit of training and a rating of like 2, BUT THEN YOUR AI MANAGER WILL START PLAYING THEM THERE IN GAMES

I know that if you happen to be online at the right time you can force your player strategy to rest for a day, but that is a stupid workaround.
Not only that, but if your player is the leading vote getter at a position, it does not necessarily get the start. I also wonder what would happen if everyone in the league rested all their players on that day. Would it crash the game?
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Old 12-16-2019, 09:13 AM   #33
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THE ALL-STAR GAME ****ING SUCKS
So, a good simulation of the real thing. :rimshot:

But yas, we agree a thousand percent.
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Old 12-16-2019, 12:29 PM   #34
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the number 1 thing for me is adding the option to play the PT games(even if just post season) live vs other player or that teams AI. So tired of losing games and playoffs for stupid decisions by the AI.
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Old 12-17-2019, 10:22 AM   #35
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My thoughts:

1. I would definitely like to see more balance on Tourneys. I'm hoping the app helps a lot with that in the future and will still be retroactive to OOTP20. It's difficult to continually sign up when you work all day and don't have access. Further, the card management/roster tools being improved would go along way too. Lastly, loading times. It's discouraging the amount of time it takes to load multiple setups over and over again in different tourneys. So I honestly haven't played as much as I would have liked here due to the clunkiness and lack of time.

One other thought would be 2nd place/3rd place rewards (or is that already there?). And maybe something just for participating, like achievements can be accrued.
Or participate in 9 tourneys each week nets you a free pack or two.

2. As far as regular league play, perhaps a 5 PL championship criteria would promote you upwards to a champions league? Maybe even a "permanent" status, no regulation so that tanking would be impossible. Put a full reset option in for those who get tired of top end competition.

I've hung around in PL on a largely f2p team and I don't mind playing whales, but if we're all worried about the large range of PL teams, then I think an extra tier up, based on # of championships, not one championship or pennant, might work better.
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Old 12-31-2019, 12:43 PM   #36
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Late to the party here but I would like to see.

*less disparity between the 100 level cards.
*more stats (double splits, Defensive runs/WAR, deeper career, etc)
*ability to dive deeper into lineups. L/R lineup to go with your starters. For example i may want a different defensive line up when madden (extreme GB) is pitching vs Lefty Grove (FB). I understand you can do this manually now.
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Old 01-04-2020, 05:00 AM   #37
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I think Quality of Life (QoL) needs to be a big focus in PT3
-Auction House revamp, specifically allowing players to filter by Collection and filter out cards they already own
-Proper tiered pyramid. Honestly, for a great example of a functional tiered PRO/REL system, the devs should really study the British soccer pyramid.
-Honestly, I know this one might be controversial, but let's stop randomising the teams each season. I remember that it was a change made under some... suboptimal conditions? But I'd like to you know, form rivalries against other people, even in my own mind. Like I know it's hard to do in a sports management video game but I would like to see more of that human element that makes baseball baseball.
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Old 01-04-2020, 09:48 AM   #38
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you can choose to stay put and then will play every season with other people who also choose to stay put

if people aren't choosing this then it means that they like the randomization

I agree though that quality of life upgrades are a big deal. Things like not having to activate every card just to see their ratings.

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Old 01-04-2020, 09:07 PM   #39
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Tourneys

Quote:
Originally Posted by chazzycat View Post
I generally like collections & tourneys fine, but with respect to card management, it can be pretty frustrating. I think it would feel a lot more "fun" if it was easier and less risky to perform basic roster management.

What I mean by that, is every time I try to clean up my reserve/inactive roster, I end up accidentally selling off collection pieces, as well as messing up my tourney rosters. Remembering every single collection piece & tourney roster is a lot to ask of players, and it's not realistic. This seems like a major weakness.

My wish list for OOTP21 would look something like this:
1) better card management quality-of-life tools
2) fix catcher defense!!
3) stronger enforcement against blatant tankers
4) fix the sewage-colored water in McCovey Cove

Im done with Tourneys...Haven't played them in months/month. Just as bad as regular PT
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Old 01-07-2020, 06:20 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Dogberry99 View Post
I have never properly played the core game. I bought 19 during the 2018 All Star break and immediately realized it would be a long, long time before I could devote the time necessary to learn the basics of this game. Then I randomly saw the announcements about the new form of game play, which eased me into the game.

I now will sometimes mess around with the 1927 Yankees or the 1922 Browns to get Challenge Packs for my teams occasionally, but I don't really care about the game. Its too cumbersome, both in the detail and size of the content and in the memory drag on my computer, which requires a restart after about one full season of core game play.

I'm going to buy 21, but I do not plan to play the core game.
Same. As someone who has played since day one the core game isn't even something I open any more. I used to enjoy that game but I simply don't have time. I don't have time for Tournies or collections even.

I really don't even have time for the other 3 teams I started a few months back. I just let them run on autopilot and rip packs from their banks every week or so.
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