Scouting

jbaxter · 10-20-2016, 08:09 AM

Scouting should be among the more interesting parts of the game, especially as it is one of the principal causes of interruptions by emails. But the interface is too complicated for most people to bother. I have a few solutions that might be worth considering for a mid-season upgrade.

1) Allow some scouts to be permanently assigned to a league or territory. Having to reassign them every 16 weeks or less is a major pain.

2) Some scouts are very good technically, but have no network for what's called bird-dogging (finding hidden gems in far flung parts of a league). Other scouts with excellent networks aren't really that great at the technical and projecting how a player will ultimately develop. Rare are the David Conte-types who can do both.

You should also break the scouting function into two: amateur and pro. The two skills are very different, as noted in your differentiating between potential and ability.

The scouting budget should be allocated by the GM between the Director of Amateur Scouting and a Director of Pro Scouting. If the team is in rebuilding mode, the GM can move more money into amateur scouting; if it's tweaking the roster during a Cup run, it might want to focus more on the pro side.

3) Fired GMs and coaches often come back to scouting while they wait out their time in purgatory (Rick Dudley). You should break down the hiring barriers (head coach, assistant coach, scout) and allow anyone to be hired to any job. For the head coach job, the player management, strategy and leadership numbers would be most important, whereas for the assistant coaches, the focus would be more on skills and tactics.

Still with hiring and firing, the owner often blocks the firing of a coach. That simply wouldn't happen. If a GM wants to get rid of a coach, the owner has no choice but to let him. That said, there would be a corresponding reduction in the owner's patience in the GM, so it's not without a cost. But the notion that an owner would keep a GM from making the moves that he feels are needed to improve the team simply wouldn't happen.

4) I like what you've done in the personnel window, allowing for assistant coaches to be given different roles. Might I suggest another breakdown would be specialty teams (PP & PK) that would require a top tactics person. The more you invest in top coaches, the better your player development and performance will be.

Another investment here would be a solid "advance scout" or "video scout" whose only job is to give you a scouting report on the upcoming teams.

5) Finally, there's a well-understood adage in hockey that good coaching will win you 5 games and bad coaching will lose you 10. There's always a danger in these games of putting too much emphasis on the coaching, at least at the pro level. At the AHL and other levels, coaches play a greater role in developing talent than in affecting the outcome of games. Coaches come and go. Scouting, drafting and transactions are what make or break teams.

Lukas Berger · 10-20-2016, 08:18 AM

Very good feedback, it's much appreciated

jbaxter · 10-20-2016, 08:21 AM

Something else to consider: the game currently develops a hugely disproportionate number of European prospects. This is to the detriment of North Americans. But a quick glance at the last 20 years or so shows that the vast, vast, vast majority of NHL prospects are still drafted from Canada and the US. Once you get into the second or third rounds of the draft -- especially in later years when the prospects are being auto-generated by AI -- you almost never find a North American kid after the second round. NHL Draft Selections by Birthplace, 1991-2014 | 2015 NHL Draft

beezer2434 · 10-20-2016, 09:55 AM

I second the permanent placement of scouts! I hate having to go back every 16 weeks to reassign every scout that i want to stay in a country on a permanent basis especially when you have a lot of scouts

Torgonius · 10-20-2016, 10:22 AM

I'll third the permanent assignments request and second the advance scout request.

With the new tactics system, a good advance scout should be able to get you better information on your opponent's game plan and personnel, allowing you to adjust yours accordingly. There's already a built in mechanism for information clarity in the 'A-E' system we get on player projections. Perhaps that could be tweaked to 'No confidence, low confidence and high confidence' for the advance/video scouts.

One thing I'd like to see down the road is the inclusion of a 'video' assistant coach. A good video coach will aid in player development as well as the team's ability to adapt to new tactics being used by the team and opponents.

My beer league team uses video to go over our performances, showing us where we were as opposed to where we should have been in different circumstances. It makes for an excellent drinking game.

beezer2434 · 10-20-2016, 11:09 AM

I believe Sebastian mentioned adding this in the tactics thread but scouting report should include the players best Tactical Positions so we know if we are getting a player that fits our tactics. Like how FM shows on the player info

Rand · 10-20-2016, 11:40 PM

I'll fourth the permanent scouting assignments, having to go back and issue all of the same scouting assignments to 25 different scouts several times a year is a major pain and completely pointless.

10-20-2016, 08:09 AM	#1
jbaxter Minors (Double A) Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 102	Scouting Scouting should be among the more interesting parts of the game, especially as it is one of the principal causes of interruptions by emails. But the interface is too complicated for most people to bother. I have a few solutions that might be worth considering for a mid-season upgrade. 1) Allow some scouts to be permanently assigned to a league or territory. Having to reassign them every 16 weeks or less is a major pain. 2) Some scouts are very good technically, but have no network for what's called bird-dogging (finding hidden gems in far flung parts of a league). Other scouts with excellent networks aren't really that great at the technical and projecting how a player will ultimately develop. Rare are the David Conte-types who can do both. You should also break the scouting function into two: amateur and pro. The two skills are very different, as noted in your differentiating between potential and ability. The scouting budget should be allocated by the GM between the Director of Amateur Scouting and a Director of Pro Scouting. If the team is in rebuilding mode, the GM can move more money into amateur scouting; if it's tweaking the roster during a Cup run, it might want to focus more on the pro side. 3) Fired GMs and coaches often come back to scouting while they wait out their time in purgatory (Rick Dudley). You should break down the hiring barriers (head coach, assistant coach, scout) and allow anyone to be hired to any job. For the head coach job, the player management, strategy and leadership numbers would be most important, whereas for the assistant coaches, the focus would be more on skills and tactics. Still with hiring and firing, the owner often blocks the firing of a coach. That simply wouldn't happen. If a GM wants to get rid of a coach, the owner has no choice but to let him. That said, there would be a corresponding reduction in the owner's patience in the GM, so it's not without a cost. But the notion that an owner would keep a GM from making the moves that he feels are needed to improve the team simply wouldn't happen. 4) I like what you've done in the personnel window, allowing for assistant coaches to be given different roles. Might I suggest another breakdown would be specialty teams (PP & PK) that would require a top tactics person. The more you invest in top coaches, the better your player development and performance will be. Another investment here would be a solid "advance scout" or "video scout" whose only job is to give you a scouting report on the upcoming teams. 5) Finally, there's a well-understood adage in hockey that good coaching will win you 5 games and bad coaching will lose you 10. There's always a danger in these games of putting too much emphasis on the coaching, at least at the pro level. At the AHL and other levels, coaches play a greater role in developing talent than in affecting the outcome of games. Coaches come and go. Scouting, drafting and transactions are what make or break teams. Last edited by jbaxter; 10-20-2016 at 08:13 AM.

10-20-2016, 08:18 AM	#2
Lukas Berger OOTP Developments Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Nice, Côte d'Azur, France Posts: 19,895	Very good feedback, it's much appreciated __________________ lukas@ootpdevelopments.com Order Out of the Park Baseball 25! Need to upload files for us to check out? Instructions can be found here

10-20-2016, 08:21 AM	#3
jbaxter Minors (Double A) Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 102	Something else to consider: the game currently develops a hugely disproportionate number of European prospects. This is to the detriment of North Americans. But a quick glance at the last 20 years or so shows that the vast, vast, vast majority of NHL prospects are still drafted from Canada and the US. Once you get into the second or third rounds of the draft -- especially in later years when the prospects are being auto-generated by AI -- you almost never find a North American kid after the second round. NHL Draft Selections by Birthplace, 1991-2014 \| 2015 NHL Draft

10-20-2016, 09:55 AM	#4
beezer2434 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 254	I second the permanent placement of scouts! I hate having to go back every 16 weeks to reassign every scout that i want to stay in a country on a permanent basis especially when you have a lot of scouts

10-20-2016, 10:22 AM	#5
Torgonius All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 826	I'll third the permanent assignments request and second the advance scout request. With the new tactics system, a good advance scout should be able to get you better information on your opponent's game plan and personnel, allowing you to adjust yours accordingly. There's already a built in mechanism for information clarity in the 'A-E' system we get on player projections. Perhaps that could be tweaked to 'No confidence, low confidence and high confidence' for the advance/video scouts. One thing I'd like to see down the road is the inclusion of a 'video' assistant coach. A good video coach will aid in player development as well as the team's ability to adapt to new tactics being used by the team and opponents. My beer league team uses video to go over our performances, showing us where we were as opposed to where we should have been in different circumstances. It makes for an excellent drinking game.

10-20-2016, 11:09 AM	#6
beezer2434 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 254	I believe Sebastian mentioned adding this in the tactics thread but scouting report should include the players best Tactical Positions so we know if we are getting a player that fits our tactics. Like how FM shows on the player info

10-20-2016, 11:40 PM	#7
Rand Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 116	I'll fourth the permanent scouting assignments, having to go back and issue all of the same scouting assignments to 25 different scouts several times a year is a major pain and completely pointless.