Matt Chapman is terrible

SJM1583 · 01-17-2019, 11:12 AM

93 overall? plays more like a 65. below are his numbers i've suffered through for 6 seasons, no more!

sending him to the auction house. Javier Baez will move to 3B and Eddie Collins comes off the bench to play 2B for this scrub.

Maddox · 01-17-2019, 11:17 AM

I just looked at his stats for the last two seasons and am a little baffled at how he rates a 93. Nothing in his offensive numbers point to him being a diamond player. I do see that he won the GG last year so maybe his boost is coming from defensive ratings?

SJM1583 · 01-17-2019, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maddox

I just looked at his stats for the last two seasons and am a little baffled at how he rates a 93. Nothing in his offensive numbers point to him being a diamond player. I do see that he won the GG last year so maybe his boost is coming from defensive ratings?

his defense is fine, but that factors into WAR and he is still a sub 1.0 WAR per year!

captainbuttercream · 01-17-2019, 01:35 PM

I've just settled on George Kell at third base until I finally get someone like Mike Schmidt. Kell is just so good, I've sold at least one copy of every live platinum 3B since I've had him.

SJM1583 · 01-17-2019, 02:07 PM

I ended up buying a Machado

This particular team is now
C Grandal
1B Posey
2B Baez
3B Machado
SS Bogaerts (vs L) / Collins (vs R at 2B with Baez to SS)
RF Harper
LF Bradley/K.Davis platoon
CF Pham
DH Gehrig
Additional Bench: Conforto, Tulowitzski (trained to play the whole infield) and a 3rd catcher.

Thundercrack · 01-17-2019, 02:34 PM

Same experience with Chapman. He’s wretched.

<Pion> · 01-17-2019, 03:17 PM

.237 BA with a .705 OPS in over 5500 games (multiple teams in multiple leagues). He checks in at #150 based on expected production, so yeah, no surprise he has not played well. The only thing that surprises me more is that there are 13 diamonds rated below him.

bobbycockstrong · 01-17-2019, 03:54 PM

Chone Figgins is decent all around if you are looking for somewhat cheap 3B

DonkeyKongSr · 01-17-2019, 05:32 PM

Arenado is the only Live Diamond 3B worth playing.

<Pion> · 01-17-2019, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonkeyKongSr

Arenado is the only Live Diamond 3B worth playing.

All-around, possibly true though quite a liability at the plate. Only Donaldson, Bryant, and Chapman are weaker with the lumber.

DonkeyKongSr · 01-17-2019, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by <Pion>

All-around, possibly true though quite a liability at the plate. Only Donaldson, Bryant, and Chapman are weaker with the lumber.

I know you are using game stats, but my metric is a calculated OPS based on their ratings. I use a formula I found on the main boards somewhere. Anyway, here's all the Live Diamond true 3B. I have Arenado as the 3rd OPS, but his defense is superior to everyone but the garbage hitter this thread is about. So, with these options, and none of these going at an insane premium, I'd pick Arenado every time.

<Pion> · 01-17-2019, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonkeyKongSr

I know you are using game stats, but my metric is a calculated OPS based on their ratings. I use a formula I found on the main boards somewhere. Anyway, here's all the Live Diamond true 3B. I have Arenado as the 3rd OPS, but his defense is superior to everyone but the garbage hitter this thread is about. So, with these options, and none of these going at an insane premium, I'd pick Arenado every time.

I was using a formula created by one of the guys that is a whiz with stats. It is based on the player's ratings though the post above about Chapman was showing real stats. But in addition, the real stats aligned very nicely with the formula, so the ranking for Arenado did not change. When I get a chance, I'll compare my list to your and see how closely they align. Good work!

joehart · 01-18-2019, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonkeyKongSr

I know you are using game stats, but my metric is a calculated OPS based on their ratings. I use a formula I found on the main boards somewhere.

Do you happen to remember the subject of that discussion on the main board ? I must have missed that discussion and formula.
I saw the discussions and spreadsheets on reddit but must have missed recent ones here.

DonkeyKongSr · 01-18-2019, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joehart

Do you happen to remember the subject of that discussion on the main board ? I must have missed that discussion and formula.
I saw the discussions and spreadsheets on reddit but must have missed recent ones here.

It's the same ones linked from that Reddit thread. It's a little sloppy on Reddit and in that thread, so it took me a bit to fix up the formulas in Excel. The formulas put PT OPS Leaderboard dominator Mike Trout at #6 after Babe Ruth, Barry Bonds, Babe Ruth, Barry Bonds, and Babe Ruth, just one spot before Babe Ruth, so I think they work pretty good.

While good guidelines, the main issues with using those formulas are:
A) No accounting for Avoid K's. An out is an out in the formula for OPS and the coding for this game, so that makes sense, but what about blown hit & runs due to strikeouts, less sacrifices, and other ways that not putting the ball in play affects results?
B) No accounting for baserunning. Yeah, Gap Power tells you when you'll hit it into the Gaps, but if your player can't smartly or quickly run the bases, it's not going to help much. Also, what about added or lost runs due to poor basepath decisions or slow speed?
C) No accounting for defense. Stopping runs is as good as creating runs.

I'll probably work towards a WRC+ or wRAA adaptation one of these days.

jd200600 · 01-18-2019, 10:25 AM

I agree. I had Chapman for three years before realizing he was terrible. I also had the same experience with Verlander and Snell. The overall rating is mind-boggling when you dig deeper into the ratings.

joehart · 01-18-2019, 10:33 AM

Nice. I have not fully compared all the real stats to their model. I may have to throw that formula into a spreadsheet and see how it compares to actual perfect league results.

Have you ever looked into player defense and errors and impact of those errors ?
Better offense vs better defense.

Thundercrack · 01-18-2019, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd200600

I agree. I had Chapman for three years before realizing he was terrible. I also had the same experience with Verlander and Snell. The overall rating is mind-boggling when you dig deeper into the ratings.

The real issue is that this guy needs to question his work ethic and his commitment to professional baseball. Current performance is unacceptable

humboldt1498 · 01-18-2019, 07:54 PM

As an A's fan, this makes me so sad. I had him for a few seasons, but his hit tools is way too low to succeed in any league above silver.

IMO, he is actually a better player then the card is rated. He is the best defensive 3rd basemen I have ever seen and has enough offense that he is a top 10 position player in MLB.

Kushiel · 01-19-2019, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by humboldt1498

As an A's fan, this makes me so sad. I had him for a few seasons, but his hit tools is way too low to succeed in any league above silver.

IMO, he is actually a better player then the card is rated. He is the best defensive 3rd basemen I have ever seen and has enough offense that he is a top 10 position player in MLB.

I am lucky to have seen both live and on TV "The Human Vacuum Cleaner" ,Brooks Robinson, play 3rd.

Clavette · 01-19-2019, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by humboldt1498

As an A's fan, this makes me so sad. I had him for a few seasons, but his hit tools is way too low to succeed in any league above silver.

IMO, he is actually a better player then the card is rated. He is the best defensive 3rd basemen I have ever seen and has enough offense that he is a top 10 position player in MLB.

Top 10 in the mlb today?!?!?

01-18-2019, 10:33 AM	#16
joehart All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 1,131	Nice. I have not fully compared all the real stats to their model. I may have to throw that formula into a spreadsheet and see how it compares to actual perfect league results. Have you ever looked into player defense and errors and impact of those errors ? Better offense vs better defense. __________________

01-17-2019, 11:12 AM	#1
SJM1583 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 85	Matt Chapman is terrible 93 overall? plays more like a 65. below are his numbers i've suffered through for 6 seasons, no more! sending him to the auction house. Javier Baez will move to 3B and Eddie Collins comes off the bench to play 2B for this scrub. Attached Images

01-17-2019, 11:17 AM	#2
Maddox All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 903	I just looked at his stats for the last two seasons and am a little baffled at how he rates a 93. Nothing in his offensive numbers point to him being a diamond player. I do see that he won the GG last year so maybe his boost is coming from defensive ratings?

01-17-2019, 01:35 PM	#4
captainbuttercream Minors (Double A) Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Indiana Posts: 109	I've just settled on George Kell at third base until I finally get someone like Mike Schmidt. Kell is just so good, I've sold at least one copy of every live platinum 3B since I've had him.

01-17-2019, 02:07 PM	#5
SJM1583 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 85	I ended up buying a Machado This particular team is now C Grandal 1B Posey 2B Baez 3B Machado SS Bogaerts (vs L) / Collins (vs R at 2B with Baez to SS) RF Harper LF Bradley/K.Davis platoon CF Pham DH Gehrig Additional Bench: Conforto, Tulowitzski (trained to play the whole infield) and a 3rd catcher.

01-17-2019, 02:34 PM	#6
Thundercrack All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 831	Same experience with Chapman. He’s wretched.

01-17-2019, 03:17 PM	#7
<Pion> All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,428	.237 BA with a .705 OPS in over 5500 games (multiple teams in multiple leagues). He checks in at #150 based on expected production, so yeah, no surprise he has not played well. The only thing that surprises me more is that there are 13 diamonds rated below him.

01-17-2019, 03:54 PM	#8
bobbycockstrong Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 178	Chone Figgins is decent all around if you are looking for somewhat cheap 3B

01-17-2019, 05:32 PM	#9
DonkeyKongSr All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 777	Arenado is the only Live Diamond 3B worth playing.

01-18-2019, 10:25 AM	#15
jd200600 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 135	I agree. I had Chapman for three years before realizing he was terrible. I also had the same experience with Verlander and Snell. The overall rating is mind-boggling when you dig deeper into the ratings.

01-18-2019, 07:54 PM	#18
humboldt1498 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 208	As an A's fan, this makes me so sad. I had him for a few seasons, but his hit tools is way too low to succeed in any league above silver. IMO, he is actually a better player then the card is rated. He is the best defensive 3rd basemen I have ever seen and has enough offense that he is a top 10 position player in MLB.