To all the veteran members

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Wrong on every level.

1. If you don't tell them that, they keep posting in the wrong forum. Fact.

2. If they ask a newbie question, people who want to help them in the newbie forum may never see it. Likewise other newbies may not see it.

3. If they ask a graphics/mods question, people who want to help them in the mods forum may never see it. Likewise other interested people may not see it.

The different forums exist for real reasons. As veterans, it's our job to make sure that new users learn to post in the right forums, because it's best for everyone.

Not saying you're wrong, but there's no reason that we can't answer the question while also telling the OP to use the proper forum next time AND asking a mod to move the original thread to the proper forum.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

Not saying you're wrong, but there's no reason that we can't answer the question while also telling the OP to use the proper forum next time AND asking a mod to move the original thread to the proper forum.

As long as all of that is done, great.

[Fyrestorm3]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Wrong on every level.

1. If you don't tell them that, they keep posting in the wrong forum. Fact.

I specifically said to tell them to direct any further inquiries to the proper forum - AFTER you offer help.

Originally Posted by The Wolf

2. If they ask a newbie question, people who want to help them in the newbie forum may never see it. Likewise other newbies may not see it.

So they shouldn't get help if they post in the wrong forum without knowing that other forums exist? Yeah, great philosophy. And nine times out of ten, the question is something that has been asked a hundred times over. If it's truly something ground-breaking that new players should know about and/or will require much further discussion, we can (as I stated above) tell the poster to make a new thread in the proper forum - AFTER offering help. Or if it's particularly necessary, a mod can move the thread.

Originally Posted by The Wolf

3. If they ask a graphics/mods question, people who want to help them in the mods forum may never see it. Likewise other interested people may not see it.

Graphics questions are a different beast. They're the only ones that NEED to be in the proper forum, since many graphics makers don't frequent the GD. So in that case, the proper response is to direct the poster to the Graphics Forum. My statement was about questions, not uniform requests. So if a new poster has a question about how to get his custom jerseys to show up, that question should still be answered wherever he posts it.

Originally Posted by The Wolf

The different forums exist for real reasons. As veterans, it's our job to make sure that new users learn to post in the right forums, because it's best for everyone.

No one's arguing that. But you can teach them what those forums are for while still offering your help. I've done it before. I've done it with people who are now regular posters on the boards - and they now post in the proper forums. You answer the question, and say something like "Just fyi, in the future, questions like this should go in the New to the Game forum". You don't say "I refuse to help you unless you post in the New to the Game forum."

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

There needs to be a balance though, because otherwise we'd end up with no news users.

And that could apply to any number of things lol.

What tends to happens is that they self-select. The more intellectual and nature/disciplined ones stay, and the less suitable ones wander off on their own.

Which is why I don't worry about the latter group.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

What tends to happens is that they self-select. The more intellectual and nature/disciplined ones stay, and the less suitable ones wander off on their own.

Which is why I don't worry about the latter group.

The bolded part is endlessly debatable.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

I specifically said to tell them to direct any further inquiries to the proper forum - AFTER you offer help.



So they shouldn't get help if they post in the wrong forum without knowing that other forums exist? Yeah, great philosophy. And nine times out of ten, the question is something that has been asked a hundred times over. If it's truly something ground-breaking that new players should know about and/or will require much further discussion, we can (as I stated above) tell the poster to make a new thread in the proper forum - AFTER offering help. Or if it's particularly necessary, a mod can move the thread.



Graphics questions are a different beast. They're the only ones that NEED to be in the proper forum, since many graphics makers don't frequent the GD. So in that case, the proper response is to direct the poster to the Graphics Forum. My statement was about questions, not uniform requests. So if a new poster has a question about how to get his custom jerseys to show up, that question should still be answered wherever he posts it.



No one's arguing that. But you can teach them what those forums are for while still offering your help. I've done it before. I've done it with people who are now regular posters on the boards - and they now post in the proper forums. You answer the question, and say something like "Just fyi, in the future, questions like this should go in the New to the Game forum". You don't say "I refuse to help you unless you post in the New to the Game forum."

I disagree with you. Coddling never leads to a positive outcome.

But as long as you honor BIG17EASY's list of things to do, I'm cool with it.

[The Wolf]

BIG17EASY's heartily endorsed checklist

1. Answer the question.

2. Tell the OP to use the proper forum next time.

3. Ask a mod to move the original thread to the proper forum.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

The bolded part is endlessly debatable.

I should have written "tend to wander off on their own."

[Fyrestorm3]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

I disagree with you. Coddling never leads to a positive outcome.

But as long as you honor BIG17EASY's list of things to do, I'm cool with it.

Yep, okay, you're barely even reading my posts. Because that's exactly what I'm endorsing.

I honestly cannot believe we're having a debate over whether to help newbies or not. Way to prove Joe's point.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

Yep, okay, you're barely even reading my posts. Because that's exactly what I'm endorsing.

I honestly cannot believe we're having a debate over whether to help newbies or not. Way to prove Joe's point.

I read them. I disagree with your idea of answer first and then beg them not to do it again. There's a right way and a wrong way to help. Give a man a fish, feed him for a day; teach him how to fish, feed him for life.

So tell them that they're in the wrong forum when they are and ask a mod to move the thread. Is that too much to ask of you?

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

Yep, okay, you're barely even reading my posts. Because that's exactly what I'm endorsing.

I honestly cannot believe we're having a debate over whether to help newbies or not. Way to prove Joe's point.

And it's not about WHETHER to do so, it's about the best way to do so for all concerned.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

I read them. I disagree with your idea of answer first and then beg them not to do it again. There's a right way and a wrong way to help. Give a man a fish, feed him for a day; teach him how to fish, feed him for life.

So tell them that they're in the wrong forum when they are and ask a mod to move the thread. Is that too much to ask of you?

Then you didn't read my suggestions, because that's exactly what I suggested and you are "heartily" endorsing. Answer the question first, tell the OP what forum he should have posted in second, and ask a mod to move the thread to that forum third. It should happen all in the same post, of course, but also specifically in that order. You even posted my suggestions in that exact order.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

Then you didn't read my suggestions, because that's exactly what I suggested and you are "heartily" endorsing. Answer the question first, tell the OP what forum he should have posted in second, and ask a mod to move the thread to that forum third. It should happen all in the same post, of course, but also specifically in that order. You even posted my suggestions in that exact order.

Yes, I read them. His was apologetic and conditional. Yours wasn't.

I'm on board with TELLING them that they posted in the wrong forum and ALWAYS asking a mod to move an inappropriate thread. Not with hinting at it to them (I've seen way to many hints ignored) and maybe asking a mod to move a thread.

You and I agree with each other, but he doesn't agree with either of us.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Yes, I read them. His was apologetic and conditional. Yours wasn't.

I'm on board with TELLING them that they posted in the wrong forum and ALWAYS asking a mod to move an inappropriate thread. Not with hinting at it to them (I've seen way to many hints ignored) and maybe asking a mod to move a thread.

You and I agree with each other, but he doesn't agree with either of us.

Fair enough. I took fyrestorm3's suggestion to be the same as mine. We just presented it differently.

[The Wolf]

It was style and procedure, not substance.

[rpriske]

You are discussing being a decent human being with a person using the term 'coddling' unironically.


I think we all know who the orginal post was aimed at.

[Fyrestorm3]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Yes, I read them. His was apologetic and conditional. Yours wasn't.

I'm on board with TELLING them that they posted in the wrong forum and ALWAYS asking a mod to move an inappropriate thread. Not with hinting at it to them (I've seen way to many hints ignored) and maybe asking a mod to move a thread.

You and I agree with each other, but he doesn't agree with either of us.

In what way am I endorsing HINTING that they're in the wrong forum? Read my freaking posts - every single one of them contains the line "tell the poster to post in the right forum." Myself and Big Easy have said the exact same thing. He just mentioned having a mod move the thread before I did.

You know what, I'm done. Wolf, you know I rarely have a problem with you, but right now, you are admirably demonstrating why so many users have you on their ignore lists.

[rpriske]

In fact, he did exactly what he was asked not to do just now. A user used his 8th post on the forum to ask a question and Wolf used it as an opportunity to attack the way he phrased it.

I guess he didn't want to 'coddle' him.

[The Wolf]

Sample reply:

Yes, and you can change that in X.

There is a separate forum for new user questions and answers, and this question should have been asked in that forum instead of in the main one.

Can we get a mod to move this thread there, please?

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by rpriske

I think we all know who the orginal post was aimed at.

We do?