There is a potential problem with PCMs

[tejdog1]

OOTP is the best sim game ever. Why in the hell would I want to bash it? Like... what?

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

You're right, the thread title is bad. But if people judge the quality of the game by thread titles on a message board without even taking the time to read the thread, are they really the type of people who are going to enjoy a game with as much depth as OOTP? Probably not.

Thread title and choice of words aside, tejdog1 has something goofy going on with his game and he came here for help, so those who are dismissing him are going against what these boards are all about, which is helping each other enjoy OOTP to its fullest extent.

Agree with this, but people also need to learn that when they encounter a problem with OOTP, the Sky is NOT falling, and they don't need to make a panic post.

A much better title for the thread would have been something along these lines:

Anyone else noticing problems with PCM's? or PCM Problem/Question or Need help with PCM's.

Then a discussion about the problem can take place and it can be determined if it's an isolated problem or plenty of people are seeing it. There are so many ways to setup and modify settings in OOTP that it's better to check things out before making bold statements and claiming the world is coming to an end in your thread title.

There has never been, nor will there ever be a "HUGE MASSIVE" problem with OOTP. It has bugs, they get discussed and once determined to in fact be bugs, then hopefully get logged.

[beorn]

First of all, if the screenshots show what they seem to show, it would indicate a very significant problem. Stoic types might post with a low key heading, but not everyone is a stoic. The OP is not trying to bash the game, but he is reporting a highly problematic scouting of a draft class, a central feature of the game for many of us. I'd personally be more annoyed by posters who try to put the OP off with lame excuses such "Don't worry if this draft class looks nothing real life. Maybe after random talent bumps it'll all work out fine."

And it is certainly possible that a major problem could have slipped through. In a game with so many options, some combination of those options could produce oddball results. That's not an attack on the game, but it is not to be shushed either.

However, I'm pretty sure that the explanation is technical, and it has to do with what Endgame suggested. 1) The commish cannot see through other scouts' eyes by using the "act as' feature. 2) Furthermore, I'm pretty sure that the scouts of AI teams don't really exist in the same sense as human teams' scouts do. I'm 99% certain I read an explanation of this a year or two ago, with Markus explaining that the game would slow way down if each team actually had all those ratings to load into memory. So the alarming screens of these other coaches are out of wack because they are calling up info that doesn't really exist.

I'd suggest resigning and taking over another team. Then the game will develop scout ratings for that team. See how they look. If they are still all low, then I'll suspect there is a very significant problem with either talent distribution in the draft (when using feeders) or else a significant problem with scouting.

You can also turn scouting off and see all the true ratings. That will determine instantly whether the draft pool lacks talent.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Cinnamon J. Scudworth

I think the OP's complaint is that the three scouts whose eyes he's viewing through are seeing virtually no talent in the draft pool at all.

And the reason he couldn't just write that was?

[RchW]

Originally Posted by tejdog1

Yes, yes, I've had stuff like that happen to me a TON, but that's not what I'm talking about. How is it possible that NOT ONE TEAM sees ONE PLAYER with a ceiling over 35? And everyone here is OK with this?

That assumes we are all playing the identical league. Asking if we are OK with something unique to you is useless.

[Ts-Rock]

if the OP is only playing in a 16-team league then would that not produce a very, very low top end talent anyway? I think that might be one of the factors too.


plus, I could have swore I read that the talent created in 14 was different in the since that it was working more on a Bell Curve with fewer top end elite specs and way more avg to below avg specs.

NOTE: couldn't find the post I'm thinking of in a quick search

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Ts-Rock

I could have swore I read that the talent created in 14 was different in the since that it was working more on a Bell Curve with fewer top end elite specs and way more avg to below avg specs.

NOTE: couldn't find the post I'm thinking of in a quick search

You must be right. My draft classes and leagues in 14 are cesspools of mediocrity. I'm going to be making adjustments.

[DustinthePOWERHOUSE]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Not that many. Just after the draft there are usually a good many, but by preseason it is not that terrible. And 3/4 of the FA's are half star prospects. When I did 300, there were heaps, and sometimes decent talent there. That's why I switched it this time. I removed 30 off the college level (that was my juco setup) and 30 off high school (that was my international high school league). I also (and you may or may not consider this) added a Extended Rookie league (every team has an affilate, and they play 100 games a season. I also extend the Short A to 100 games). That gives anyone with a semblance of talent a chance to develop. If someone is a free agent, they are most likely not very good at all.

That's an astonishing amount of college/HS teams are you using real ones and did you get logos? Also my talent pool in a 191 (College/HS) is pretty good for the first year with more talent upcoming when they graduate.

Also, I never thought of expanding Rookie League that's a great idea...

For Juco teams did you add a separate feeder league for them? Seperate from your other college feeder I mean cause that's a cool idea...maybe seperate HS and prep schools as well (spitball idea sorry for my game)

Anyway Im fascinated as that is an astonishing amount of feeder league teams.

[ashantewarrier]

I actually play with 300 College Teams and 300 HS feeders myself. I also have independent leagues in my universe. Indy league teams tend to sign undrafted free agents, "soaking" up the excess.

[DustinthePOWERHOUSE]

Originally Posted by ashantewarrier

I actually play with 300 College Teams and 300 HS feeders myself. I also have independent leagues in my universe. Indy league teams tend to sign undrafted free agents, "soaking" up the excess.

Real teams? How many rounds do you do for the MLB draft and our of how many generated? And are they all in the same league or do you do a bunch of feeder leagues?

Give me DETAILS man! I'm fascinated!

Also by independent leagues do you mean Japaense/Italian and so on leagues or more minor leagues that are just seperate?

[TGH-Adfabre]

To the OP:
1st thought:
Have you copied your league file, renamed, opened the 2nd version and turned scouting off?
Putting that next to your screen shots may help determine if it is player creation or scouting.
I would assume there is a programming difference between 100% scouting and scouting off. Just for the sake of certainty I think scouting off or both, 3 copies of the file.
It may give some info about where the league has gone off to.

2nd thought:
How stacked is your ML? minors? Are these players really mediocre compared to developed ML players? or propects in the minors?

[ashantewarrier]

Originally Posted by DustinthePOWERHOUSE

Real teams? How many rounds do you do for the MLB draft and our of how many generated? And are they all in the same league or do you do a bunch of feeder leagues?

Give me DETAILS man! I'm fascinated!

Also by independent leagues do you mean Japaense/Italian and so on leagues or more minor leagues that are just seperate?

I play with the draft set 40 rounds, real indy leagues i.e. American Association, Atlantic League, Pegos league, to name a few.

I play with the major international leagues such as Nippon League, Taiwan (Chinese) league as well.

I use several feeder leagues in addition to College and High School.

[DustinthePOWERHOUSE]

Originally Posted by ashantewarrier

I play with the draft set 40 rounds, real indy leagues i.e. American Association, Atlantic League, Pegos league, to name a few.

I play with the major international leagues such as Nippon League, Taiwan (Chinese) league as well.

I use several feeder leagues in addition to College and High School.

Can I send you some PM's with more questions? If the answer is no I promise I won't be offended, I'm just fascinated and would like to learn more.

[ashantewarrier]

Originally Posted by DustinthePOWERHOUSE

Can I send you some PM's with more questions? If the answer is no I promise I won't be offended, I'm just fascinated and would like to learn more.

Feel free...

[Ts-Rock]

Originally Posted by DustinthePOWERHOUSE

Can I send you some PM's with more questions? If the answer is no I promise I won't be offended, I'm just fascinated and would like to learn more.

I sent you too

[DustinthePOWERHOUSE]

Originally Posted by Ts-Rock

I sent you too

Why not make it a three way and see what we can learn from each others games?

[The Wolf]

Why not just discuss it here?

[Bowtie]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

There has never been, nor will there ever be a "HUGE MASSIVE" problem with OOTP.

Wrong and wrong. Yes, there was a huge massive problem that happened in OOTP 13 last year. IIRC, the problem involved players being hit by the pitch that would result in injury. It happened around the 7th or 8th patch. Many here in the community saw the full affects of the bug and reported it. However, both Markus and Andreas were on vacation. Luckily, I happened to catch Sebastian Palkowski online that day and reported the problem to him. He then in turn had to call Andreas on the phone in the middle of the night there in Germany and Andreas had to go and hurry and remove the just released patch/update and build a new patch.

I honestly don't meant to boast or brag but thankfully I was around here on the boards to help handle that mess. So, yeah, huge massive problems can happen even in OOTP. True though, they are few and far between. Others are just significant issues - like the one Tejdog1 is may/may not be experiencing.

[The Wolf]

Good job on that. Especially Andreas.

[Déjà Bru]

Oh, now I get what tejdog1 is talking about. Here's how to replicate his situation:

1. Start a new test game with an upcoming inaugural draft.
2. In Manager Options, take on Commissioner powers.
3. Seize a job as GM. The game will rescout using your current scout.
4. Look at the draft pool. The talent curve appears normal (at least to me; remember, this is a game right out of the box with all defaults).
5. Now go to Manager Options and Act As GM of another team.
6. Go back to the draft pool. At first, nothing appears to have changed.
7. Click Scouting and click the name of this team's scout.
8. Everything will be re-evaluated and ALL players look mediocre.
9. Now go back to your own team (reset Act as GM to the team that hired you) and repeat step 7.
10. Note that the normal distribution of great to poor players (as rated by YOUR scout) has been restored.

This goes back to what beorn and endgame said, quoting beorn:

However, I'm pretty sure that the explanation is technical, and it has to do with what Endgame suggested. 1) The commish cannot see through other scouts' eyes by using the "act as' feature. 2) Furthermore, I'm pretty sure that the scouts of AI teams don't really exist in the same sense as human teams' scouts do. I'm 99% certain I read an explanation of this a year or two ago, with Markus explaining that the game would slow way down if each team actually had all those ratings to load into memory. So the alarming screens of these other coaches are out of wack because they are calling up info that doesn't really exist.

So yes, one more very gentle reminder: The HUGE, MASSIVE thread titles should be toned down, although I certainly support free speech.