Star Ratings in OOTP 14

[braunfullyaccused]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

What exactly was adjusted?

I can vouch this has been corrected in new version.

If you re-scout the players with the discrepancy in potential ratings, the potential from the profile and scouting report will now match.

It actually appears scouting will now work as it is intended, placing more importance on requesting up to date individual scouting reports (also reflecting their current league level, again as the purpose of scouting is summarized.)

Because the variation exists prior to re-scouting (as it rightfully should, ), I don't know how this will play out for the draft, e.g the initial report from 6/1 might have discrepancies requiring individual scouting on players you intend to draft.

[hefalumps]

Awesome news. I'm glad to see there actually was something *wrong* and it wasn't a corrupt league or my imagination.

Well VG, I guess all that "This is not a bug" talk was a bit premature, eh? In seriousness though, our debating back and forth with PSUColonel probably helped it stay on Markus's radar so it could get fixed. That's what matters in the end.

[VanillaGorilla]

Originally Posted by hefalumps

Awesome news. I'm glad to see there actually was something *wrong* and it wasn't a corrupt league or my imagination.

Well VG, I guess all that "This is not a bug" talk was a bit premature, eh? In seriousness though, our debating back and forth with PSUColonel probably helped it stay on Markus's radar so it could get fixed. That's what matters in the end.

OK....what is different than before?

Rescouting did the same thing before. The discrepancy came from changes to the player pool in the time between the scouting report and viewing the player page. Rescout and they become the same. What is new?

[hefalumps]

Originally Posted by VanillaGorilla

OK....what is different than before?

Rescouting did the same thing before. The discrepancy came from changes to the player pool in the time between the scouting report and viewing the player page. Rescout and they become the same. What is new?

Because before, I could rescout the same MR over and over until I was blue in the face, there would always be the same discrepancy. It's like one report was judging him against one group of players, and the other report was judging him against another. Like I said, with my guy, every single month when the new scouting report came out, it had him at one star when the profile screen still had him at 4.

So you're suggesting that on the first of every month, a bunch of better MRs were suddenly inserted into the league, the 1-star scouting report was generated, and then all of those better MRs were just as suddenly removed from the league so that the profile page saw him as a 4-star MR again? That doesn't make sense.

I know we theorized that the game might be running the monthly scouting report on him as an SP even though he was an MR and his suggested role was "Strictly Bullpen", but if that was the case, then THAT was a bug. There's no reason the scouting report should have been treating that guy as an SP.

So that's what's fixed. Now rescouting makes both the most current scouting report and the profile agree with each other.

That said, I would love to know the details of exactly what was causing the problem and what Markus did to correct it.

[VanillaGorilla]

Originally Posted by hefalumps

Well VG, I guess all that "This is not a bug" talk was a bit premature, eh?

Your tonguey-face is noted, but not necessary.

With that tone in play......

Need I repost this??:

Originally Posted by Markus' response:
Yes, VG hits the nail on the head. The scouting reports screen has the rating as a snapshot, and the profile screen is dynamic, hence the discrepancies.

What braun describes is nothing new.

Run a rescout the next day and the stars are the same on both screens*.....this is how it ALWAYS worked.

[hefalumps]

VG - I don't want to argue anymore.

When Markus made the comment you quoted, he wasn't seeing the problem I was experiencing. Apparently he must have found something after the fact and addressed it.

I understand that rescouting after a discrepancy always worked for you, and that's great. What I'm saying is that it didn't always work for everyone in all leagues, and it didn't work for me on a number of MRs in my league. Yes, it could have been that some of our leagues were corrupted somehow, but apparently Markus found something that he corrected that is resolving the issue for those people it was affecting.

We all win.

Sorry for the tongue in cheek smiley face - I didn't mean to provoke another argument. Maybe some day Markus will comment on this thread and enlighten us on what was going on.

[VanillaGorilla]

Originally Posted by hefalumps

Because before, I could rescout the same MR over and over until I was blue in the face, there would always be the same discrepancy. It's like one report was judging him against one group of players, and the other report was judging him against another. Like I said, with my guy, every single month when the new scouting report came out, it had him at one star when the profile screen still had him at 4.

So you're suggesting that on the first of every month, a bunch of better MRs were suddenly inserted into the league, the 1-star scouting report was generated, and then all of those better MRs were just as suddenly removed from the league so that the profile page saw him as a 4-star MR again? That doesn't make sense.

I know we theorized that the game might be running the monthly scouting report on him as an SP even though he was an MR and his suggested role was "Strictly Bullpen", but if that was the case, then THAT was a bug. There's no reason the scouting report should have been treating that guy as an SP.

So that's what's fixed. Now rescouting makes both the most current scouting report and the profile agree with each other.

That said, I would love to know the details of exactly what was causing the problem and what Markus did to correct it.

What may have been fixed is the program recognizing the MR as a MR. Good news that it wasn't a corruption for you and good news that it was found and fixed.

The question I just thought of now, did that MR have same thing happen over the course of multiple seasons, or was it within one discrete season you had your discrepancies?

I will say this....I still have Dan Brouthers and Mike Donlin showing up as pitchers in my HOF....lol.

Your MR/SP issue was different than what the OP brought up (though both of you displayed disparate star ratings in your examples). Your's may have been bug related. The OP's complaint was not describing a bug, per the posted reference from Marcus.

[hefalumps]

Originally Posted by VanillaGorilla

What may have been fixed is the program recognizing the MR as a MR. Good news that it wasn't a corruption for you and good news that it was found and fixed.

The question I just thought of now, did that MR have same thing happen over the course of multiple seasons, or was it within one discrete season you had your discrepancies?

I will say this....I still have Dan Brouthers and Mike Donlin showing up as pitchers in my HOF....lol.

Your MR/SP issue was different than what the OP brought up (though both of you displayed disparate star ratings in your examples). Your's may have been bug related. The OP's complaint was not describing a bug, per the posted reference from Marcus.

Fair enough. Like I said, we all win.

The specific MR I posted screenshots of was not on my team until near the end of his career, so I don't know how long it had been going on. But it definitely wasn't just one season with a handful of players - I had noticed it before with other players but just not paid as close attention.

[VanillaGorilla]

Originally Posted by hefalumps

Sorry for the tongue in cheek smiley face - I didn't mean to provoke another argument. Maybe some day Markus will comment on this thread and enlighten us on what was going on.

We have a misunderstanding. I took no offense at your smiley. When I said that it wasn't necessary, I wasn't meaning that in a reproving sense. What I meant was that I did not take any offense from your words and that the smiley face, while nice, was not required.

Cheers.

[hefalumps]

Originally Posted by VanillaGorilla

We have a misunderstanding. I took no offense at your smiley. When I said that it wasn't necessary, I wasn't meaning that in a reproving sense. What I meant was that I did not take any offense from your words and that the smiley face, while nice, was not required.

Cheers.

Gotcha - misunderstanding cleared up.

Well, until Markus or Jon Shafer can provide any more details on exactly what was fixed, I guess there's not a whole lot else to talk about.

[braunfullyaccused]

Originally Posted by VanillaGorilla

[/I]

What braun describes is nothing new.

Run a rescout the next day and the stars are the same on both screens*.....this is how it ALWAYS worked.

Negative mate. (Hence my reason for finding and lurking this thread.)

Before I updated yesterday, many of my players would show one rating on the profile and another on the scouting report the same day the scouting report was delivered.

I just noticed that it is actually still occurring, but on a much more limited basis and much smaller margin. (previously I would have a player show 4 stars on their profile and 2 stars on the days scouting report).

However, I do have a theory in that any time a player changes levels it creates the discrepancy. This would sort of make sense in real world context, given the same scout would have a different opinion of a player when observing them perform at a new professional level and higher or lower level of competition.

Since the ratings are intended to reflect a players rating and potential at the MLB level I suppose this could be considered the constant in the equation. That's to say, it's hypothetically harder to accurately scout a player the further from the objective baseline.

[hefalumps]

Interesting theory braun - it could certainly apply to my MR I was focusing on, as he was between ML, AAA, and AA most of the time - despite the 4-star profile rating, he pitched more like the scouting report 1-star rating, hence the frequent demotions.

Some quirk with whether or not the player is being compared to a pool of major league players or a pool of minor league players would certainly be more feasible to me than a player being judged as a SP when he's a MR and been an MR his whole career (I think).

I know the scouting reports would tell you which level he was being rated against, but the profile rating didn't. In fact, maybe the profile rating was comparing the player against *all players in every level he'd played at*. So for example, maybe my MR was a four star player when compared to everyone between ML, AAA, and AA, but only a one star player when compared to just the ML.

Really liking that theory braun. Keep hoping Markus will hop on here and confirm/deny at some point.

[Jon Shafer]

Okay, turns out the problem isn't fixed after all. Markus is looking into it some more.

- Jon

[VanillaGorilla]

We have two separate things being discussed in this thread.

1) The point of the original topic, for which I will tag PSU as the torch bearer (and this is not meant as anything disparaging towards PSU, at all, just trying to clarify the difference in the posts/arguments). This complaint is that the stars can be different on the scouting page from the player profile page and the fact that this happens, ever, let alone on the same day as the scouting report, is a bug and needs to be fixed.

This is not a bug. It is how the game is deigned to function. Marcus has responded in confirmation to this point through endgame.

2) Hefalumps observation of his MR having the star ratings in his scouting report as a SP while his use has been strictly as a MR, and the MR stars being displayed on the player profile page, which are quite different from the scouting page.

This could be a corruption, but I think there is something going on here within the software that is giving an unhelpful display which may be properly called a bug.

I have mentioned my HOF hitters who are listed as HOF pitchers without ever facing a batter as a pitcher in their careers. I change them to position players, and they are changed back to position by the software. This could simply be a corruption of something in these player files, or it could be some sort of bug that pops up under certain circumstances that may, or may not be, related to what hefalumps describes.

Braun brings up a very intriguing item about scouting reports being of different accuracies at different levels. I never thought of this. IF this is in the game, OMG, that is soooo freaking cool. However, this would have nothing to do with how the less accurate numbers are reflected in star ratings. I took a look at players who were scouted in AAA and then at the ML. When their talent numbers between the two scouting reports were comparable, their star ratings in the scouting reports were also similar.

An average ML player would be 4.5-5 stars in AAA. This is not how the scouting report history is displayed.

However, it is this observation that Braun contributes that leads to what I think is the resolution/solution.

When we look at the scouting report history, we see the level that the player was at when scouted. I will guess that probably this does have an impact on the accuracy of the scouting numbers, themselves. Scouts have different ratings for scouting major leaguers and minor leaguers, so that is a known variable that is involved, whether or not players in the minors are given an across the board less accurate scout that is factored into the equation that produces the scouted talent numbers.

We get the information regarding the level where the player was scouted because it means something.

What we are not given is position for which the player was scouted that is archived in the scouting report. This obviously means something in so far as the displayed star ratings are concerned.*

The solution? Simply add the position that the player was given his star rating in the scouting report history.

That way, be it a "bug" or some sort of corruption which causes the scout report to post stars based on a different position than the player is used, and that results in an extreme disparity in the star ratings, the user (all of us) has that information on the screen and can say "Ah....the scouting report has my MR as a SP (or SS as C, or whatever) and that is the reason for the difference."

By having this information regarding which position the star ratings come from in the scouting report, we can tell, for sure, that any difference in the star ratings between the last scouting report and the current ratings are from a change in the relative strength of the player being examined vs the talent of the league he is in.

We will know that we are, in fact, comparing apples to apples.

[braunfullyaccused]

Originally Posted by Jon Shafer

Okay, turns out the problem isn't fixed after all. Markus is looking into it some more.

- Jon

Ha, was just coming here to post. I reloaded my game today and the changes were gone. (the differences in profile and scouting report have reappeared)

[hefalumps]

Well that's unfortunate. If they were at least temporarily corrected, I'm hoping it won't take as long for Markus to figure out why the corrections weren't permanent.

Unfortunately I can't test because I started a new league with the latest OOTP14 build, and I haven't seen any discrepancies yet in that league. And with some of the other problems people are reporting with this patch, I'm not going to try importing my long-running league from OOTP13 (where I do have ratings discrepancies) just yet.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by VanillaGorilla

We have two separate things being discussed in this thread.

1) The point of the original topic, for which I will tag PSU as the torch bearer (and this is not meant as anything disparaging towards PSU, at all, just trying to clarify the difference in the posts/arguments). This complaint is that the stars can be different on the scouting page from the player profile page and the fact that this happens, ever, let alone on the same day as the scouting report, is a bug and needs to be fixed.

This is not a bug. It is how the game is deigned to function. Marcus has responded in confirmation to this point through endgame.

2) Hefalumps observation of his MR having the star ratings in his scouting report as a SP while his use has been strictly as a MR, and the MR stars being displayed on the player profile page, which are quite different from the scouting page.

This could be a corruption, but I think there is something going on here within the software that is giving an unhelpful display which may be properly called a bug.

I have mentioned my HOF hitters who are listed as HOF pitchers without ever facing a batter as a pitcher in their careers. I change them to position players, and they are changed back to position by the software. This could simply be a corruption of something in these player files, or it could be some sort of bug that pops up under certain circumstances that may, or may not be, related to what hefalumps describes.

Braun brings up a very intriguing item about scouting reports being of different accuracies at different levels. I never thought of this. IF this is in the game, OMG, that is soooo freaking cool. However, this would have nothing to do with how the less accurate numbers are reflected in star ratings. I took a look at players who were scouted in AAA and then at the ML. When their talent numbers between the two scouting reports were comparable, their star ratings in the scouting reports were also similar.

An average ML player would be 4.5-5 stars in AAA. This is not how the scouting report history is displayed.

However, it is this observation that Braun contributes that leads to what I think is the resolution/solution.

When we look at the scouting report history, we see the level that the player was at when scouted. I will guess that probably this does have an impact on the accuracy of the scouting numbers, themselves. Scouts have different ratings for scouting major leaguers and minor leaguers, so that is a known variable that is involved, whether or not players in the minors are given an across the board less accurate scout that is factored into the equation that produces the scouted talent numbers.

We get the information regarding the level where the player was scouted because it mens something.

What we are not given is position for which the player was scouted that is archived in the scouting report.

The solution? Simply add the position that the player was given his star rating in the scouting report history.

That way, be it a "bug" or some sort of corruption which causes the scout report to post stars based on a different position than the player is used, and that results in an extreme disparity in the star ratings, the user (all of us) has that information on the screen and can say "Ah....the scouting report has my MR as a SP (or SS as C, or whatever) and that is the reason for the difference."

By having this information regarding which position the star ratings come from in the scouting report, we can tell, for sure, that any difference in the star ratings between the last scouting report and the current ratings are from a change in the relative strength of the player being examined vs the talent of the league he is in.

We will know that we are, in fact, comparing apples to apples.

I would like to add something additional. While my complaint may be by design, I still feel it is a poor design, and would very much like to see it changed. After all, if the profile page is dynamic, whu do we have the option to scout individual players at all? It should bever be dynamic...this is my biggest argument.

[VanillaGorilla]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I would like to add something additional. While my complaint may be by design, I still feel it is a poor design, and would very much like to see it changed. After all, if the profile page is dynamic, whu do we have the option to scout individual players at all? It should bever be dynamic...this is my biggest argument.

This is why:

The star ratings are dynamic. The talent ratings are not (at least not until the next scouting report is returned, be it a report of all the players, or an individual to whom you assigned your scout to report on, specifically).

The star ratings change as the other players in the league change or you change the position of your player, thereby comparing him to a different subset of players in the league.

If you scout an individual player, you get a scouting report for that player that may have different player ratings than what you got from the mass scout, previously. These ratings changes can impact the star ratings, also.

That the star ratings change in no way means that the player's talent level has changed, necessarily.

The design is a solid one.

[PSUColonel]

But what if I don't want the AI to evaluate that way. What if I want the evaluation to be based on all players rather than position? I feel this dynamic aspect of the overall rating in that case should remain static, not dynamic (until the next scout)

[braunfullyaccused]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

But what if I don't want the AI to evaluate that way. What if I want the evaluation to be based on all players rather than position? I feel this dynamic aspect of the overall rating in that case should remain static, not dynamic (until the next scout)

You can turn this option on in your league settings.