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OOTP 14 - General Discussions Discuss the new 2013 version of Out of the Park Baseball here!

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Old 08-22-2013, 02:39 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3 View Post
I said "praised," not "good." HUGE difference.
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Old 08-22-2013, 02:39 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by injury log View Post
From straw men to false dichotomies. You don't have two options: praise storylines or mercilessly criticize them. You can just say nothing, for example. Or offer constructive criticism. Or say you don't like them but have the humility to acknowledge that's your own viewpoint only, rather than writing "turn storylines off" every chance you have on this forum.
Wow, your arrogance is overwhelming. Because you believe that these people deserve praise, I am supposed to either shut up or praise them? Even though I find their efforts to be useless? No opposing viewpoints are allowed? Hah!

Plus, I am not the only person who doesn't care for storylines. There are a number of us. You just single me out because you don't like me. (Which is fine, I don't like you either.)

I have every right to express my opinions and my conclusion. If they run counter to your own, well that's life.

And my conclusion is this: TURN STORYLINES OFF.
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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

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Old 08-22-2013, 02:45 AM   #123
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Again, it's really simple...if you don't like storylines or have a problem with it just turn the damn thing off.

It's..just...that...simple.
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Old 08-22-2013, 02:48 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3 View Post
Honestly, I don't give a rat's behind about whether or not this storyline stays in the game. Does it affect the OOTP experience at all? No. Does it make it more realistic? Not enough to warrant its inclusion. So, I don't care.

What I DO care about is caving to the demand of someone who had an adverse reaction to something that was in the game. I mean, it's great that the OOTP team listens to its players. It's fantastic. But this was not an overwhelming majority calling for the removal of the story. In fact, it was pretty much split 50/50. So, when everything was equal, they listened to the ones who made the fuss. You know what would happen if we always listened to the people who made the fuss? We'd regress backwards. Storylines? Gone. Obscure injuries? Don't need 'em. Bugs in the latest patch? Better throw that one out completely. The game's too hard? Let's make it easier.

Take a look at some of the most praised games/books/movies/shows in recent years: Game of Thrones. The Walking Dead. The Hunger Games. The Last of Us. Spec Ops: The Line. Breaking Bad. Each one of those pushes the limits somehow. Were there people "outraged" at some of the scenes in them? Of course there were. There's nudity in Game of Thrones! Over-the-top violence in The Walking Dead! Kids die in The Hunger Games! The point I'm trying to make here is that people are ALWAYS going to get offended at SOMETHING. When we start listening to the people who get offended, we start playing it safe. And when we play it safe, we end up with yet another romantic comedy and yet another Call of Duty.

I'm not saying that the decision to remove this storyline is automatically going to lead down that slope. In fact, I sincerely doubt it will. But it certainly is worrying to see such a knee-jerk reaction from the dev team.

EDIT: I should note that I understand that VG's thread (linked above) was tongue-in-cheek. But the reason he posted it was because there have been people who legitimately complained about those type of injuries.
Well, you don't care about the story line, it's offers no real tangible benefit to you or your experience... but... DO NOT CAVE TO THE COMPLAINER!!! That's your stance??! Are you actually trying to equate people moaning about an unrealistic injury to somebody who sincerely believes that it's bad taste to fictionalize a real life child's death into a "bummer email" for your sports sim? And let's not forget, there was a real child who died to inspire this little bit of piss that might get into your virtual Cheerios.

Could it be possible that somebody in a position of authority actually reflected on the situation and had a change of heart? That maybe death shouldn't be a subject touched on in this product? Is that even remotely feasible? Apparently not, as you have decreed their actions as nothing more than irrational knee-jerking... I'm sure they appreciate that.

EDIT: I'm retiring from this thread... Just going in circles at this point over something pretty much everybody agrees is inconsequential in the big picture. Apologies if I caused anybody any offense. Now back to something only slightly less inconsequential in the big picture... my upcoming in-game trade deadline...

Last edited by Nunyer; 08-22-2013 at 03:01 AM.
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Old 08-22-2013, 03:24 AM   #125
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it's in poor taste.

it's stupid.

it has no place in the game.
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Old 08-22-2013, 03:27 AM   #126
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A child dying is in poor taste? Hey bud...it's happens every day. People die...children, adults, men, women, I mean really...this isn't reality. Get a grip!
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Old 08-22-2013, 03:33 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by Nunyer View Post
Well, you don't care about the story line, it's offers no real tangible benefit to you or your experience... but... DO NOT CAVE TO THE COMPLAINER!!! That's your stance??! Are you actually trying to equate people moaning about an unrealistic injury to somebody who sincerely believes that it's bad taste to fictionalize a real life child's death into a "bummer email" for your sports sim?
Yes. *shrug*

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And let's not forget, there was a real child who died to inspire this little bit of piss that might get into your virtual Cheerios.
You're acting like I'm making light of the fact that kids die. I am not, I am simply acknowledging it happens instead of hiding from the harsh realities of life.

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Originally Posted by Nunyer View Post
Could it be possible that somebody in a position of authority actually reflected on the situation and had a change of heart? That maybe death shouldn't be a subject touched on in this product? Is that even remotely feasible? Apparently not, as you have decreed their actions as nothing more than irrational knee-jerking... I'm sure they appreciate that.
As injury log pointed out, it's taken 18 months. I, however, am not privy to the discussions on the beta forum, and did not know that it had been debated there. Thanks for flipping out on me before I had a chance to respond and say that I take back the knee-jerk comment.

In fact, thanks for flipping out on me in general, because you proved my point. I make an impassioned post, and you read it and - because you are offended by the storyline that I'm barely even defending - you assume that I'm insulting the dev team for taking it out. Claiming that someone had a knee-jerk reaction and bashing them are two completely different things.

Now please, someone, for the love of all that is holy, close this thread.
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Old 08-22-2013, 03:40 AM   #128
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I never use them. After a few seasons they are like warmed over leftovers. You keep seeing the same ones over and over. Plus the time frames don't matched like a player cutting his hand on a big screen TV inb1912, or players in a football pool in 1901.

I wish they were removed and the space used for better things. But others love them so I'm happy with a shutoff switch.

Also I agree with the OP, kids dying is a bit much for a baseball sim. If you need that much realism then just watch the news.
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Old 08-22-2013, 03:40 AM   #129
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Wow, your arrogance is overwhelming. Because you believe that these people deserve praise, I am supposed to either shut up or praise them?
You seem to really want it to be true that I said this. But I didn't. There's really not much point in continuing a conversation with someone who continually replies to me with straw men, so I'll give up after this one last try to make my point clear. If you pay for a service, and someone does a bad job, I don't have a problem if you complain about the work. If, on the other hand, someone donates their time to try to make your game better, I think they at least deserve some respect for their efforts. You can dislike or criticize something without being a total jerk about it.

There wouldn't even be an OOTP game, or at least not one that remotely resembles what we play, without the thousands of hours of time that volunteers donate to the game. I have infinitely more respect for the people volunteering their work and at least trying to make things better than I do for people just complaining all day on an internet forum.

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You just single me out because you don't like me.
Since you brought up "arrogance", I'm not sure you could do anything more arrogant than tell me what I think. I hardly care enough about you one way or the other to dislike you. I do think you do more harm to OOTP than good, however.
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Old 08-22-2013, 04:06 AM   #130
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Just to reiterate the most reasonable and sensible suggestion made earlier:

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All that has to be done is change "Death of Child" to read "Death in the Family".
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Old 08-22-2013, 04:51 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange View Post
Just to reiterate the most reasonable and sensible suggestion made earlier:
And I would like to re-reiterate it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenoser View Post
All that has to be done is change "Death of Child" to read "Death in the Family".
This is an incredibly simple fix that should make everyone happy.
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Old 08-22-2013, 06:43 AM   #132
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Hey guys-

I haven't read all the replies but enough for me to say this: Cody, I think you are making a poor decision by removing this particular storyline. Just because a few people complain about this being part of this awesome game does not warrant it to be removed. Please allow me to be more specific: there isn't enough percentage of people against this versus the amount of people that have purchased and play this version of OOTP to warrant it to be removed. I for one have zero problems with it. I have a lot thicker skin than to allow this to get the best of me. So Cody, please put this storyline back in until the percentage of people against this item is more of an acceptable number.

Folks, those of you who don't like this storyline the answer is simple: just turn off storylines. Or when one like this appears in your GM inbox, just delete it and move on. Again, as I say, simple as that. It, IMHO, does add more immersion to the game. In fact, since we do have owners dying, we do need to add players, coaches/managers and HOF'ers dying. Again, more immersion added.
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Old 08-22-2013, 06:55 AM   #133
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Going to close this as the offending storyline has been removed from the database. Time to let the discussion close and move on. Whichever side you found yourself on, for now this debate is finished, and people can move on to other things and features they would like to see in OOTP and chat about that.

Thanks. But the time for this has closed. See you in the forums!
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Old 08-22-2013, 10:46 AM   #134
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Today we had a discussion about this issue in our ootp dev mailing list. Markus, Brad, Jeff and I were involved. We sent several emails around and discussed it. In the end all of us agreed that this storyline should be removed. I opened the online editor and it was already removed. Okay.

Minutes later I received a PM of a forum member that he will never ever again buy or support OOTP and wants his user name removed from the forums because we removed that SL

This is a very complex game with hundreds of options and features. We tweak them all the time and now we decided to remove a certain SL. That's not a big deal IMO. People still die in OOTP - parents, brothers, sisters, wifes, players... - but no children because we just decided that this is a bit too much realism. I hope you understand. But much more I hope that nobody gets angry because of this minor design decision.
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Old 08-22-2013, 11:52 AM   #135
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Let me please add another important detail:
Really, Markus and I did not even know this thread until I received that PM. We just got input from Brad that the question was asked whether this storyline makes sense or should be removed. The team discussed it openly.

Don't worry, we will not start bending to the most vocal people! If we're not sure what to do, we will start a discussion on the beta testing forum or on a public forum or we'll even start a poll. But in this case we had an opinion which we didn't want to discuss. It's a "design decision".
Thank you for understanding!
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