Best of 7 or Best of 9?

[venflaalachi]

Hey everyone,

Whenever I set up new leagues this is one of the questions I struggle with the most. I usually choose a best of 9 series but it does feel a bit long at times. In the championship round, should the series be a best of 7 or a best of 9? Which one do you all prefer/use in your leagues?

Related to this question, why did the MLB do a best of 9 from 1919-1921 and then revert back to a best of 7?

[NoOne]

9 games will allow the 'better' team to win more often than 7 games. it is mathemetically harder for the team with the lower probability to win as you increase # of games.

adding more layers makes it less likely for the best team to "make it" for the same exact reasons... if oyu have to win 3 series instead of 2 to get to the WS, it's more difficult (lower %, all other things remaining the same)

that is the only real difference beside the logistics of 2 more games and what that entails... the rest is based on opinion, emotion and money.

in the early 1900's i'd wager they switched back merely because of 'feel' or customer related and nothing based in logic or reason.

i chose 7 because it's how it is in RL and i mimic RL in this type of context -- no 'good' reason for it. i want similar %'s to RL.

[tolbuck]

Originally Posted by venflaalachi

Related to this question, why did the MLB do a best of 9 from 1919-1921 and then revert back to a best of 7?

Baseball lost money and attendance during World War I. The National Commission, which ran baseball at the time, thought a best of 9 World Series would be a good way to increase both. By 1921 it was apparent a 9 game series wasn't needed for its intended purposes, so it reverted back to a 7 game series in 1922.

[Winnipeg59]

I would like to toss a wrench into the discussion. I might be inclined to vote "9" without inter-league. You didn't mention that?

:-)

[Déjà Bru]

While NoOne is undoubtedly correct in his assessment of the odds of the best team winning in 9 games being better than 7 games, I still voted for 7 games. The reason is, by the time the eighth and ninth games come around (if the best team did not indeed already win), it just seems too drawn out to hold any more interest and suspense.

Look at it this way: If MLB could possibly milk more dollars by going to 9 games in a series, they would have done so and that would be the norm. There has to be a reason why you have not seen 9-game series in many decades. Instead, as NoOne mentioned, they've added layers of playoffs to enhance revenue and those have had the opposite effect of making it likely that the best team wins.

[venflaalachi]

Originally Posted by Winnipeg59

I would like to toss a wrench into the discussion. I might be inclined to vote "9" without inter-league. You didn't mention that?

:-)

ha yea my leagues do not have inter-league since I have only 1 sub league with no divisions. Depending on the amount of teams in the league the top 2 or top 4 go onto the postseason.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

While NoOne is undoubtedly correct in his assessment of the odds of the best team winning in 9 games being better than 7 games, I still voted for 7 games. The reason is, by the time the eighth and ninth games come around (if the best team did not indeed already win), it just seems too drawn out to hold any more interest and suspense.

Just curious, if 7 games are interesting and full of suspense, and 9 games aren't; how do you manage to make it through a 162 game season?

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Look at it this way: If MLB could possibly milk more dollars by going to 9 games in a series, they would have done so and that would be the norm. There has to be a reason why you have not seen 9-game series in many decades. Instead, as NoOne mentioned, they've added layers of playoffs to enhance revenue and those have had the opposite effect of making it likely that the best team wins.

That may true irl, but we're talking OOTP here. Whether it's a best of 7 or best of 9 is purely preference in OOTP. I use best of 9 when I have a small league with very few teams in the playoffs. I use best of 7 when it's larger or has several teams in the playoffs. I had a league once, 1 division, 8 teams. Top 3 made playoffs with Div winner getting a by. The real bonus for winning the Div though was having a 2-7 home field split in the Championship Series. Winning the Division really meant something; and the added revenue helped too.

How's that saying go again... "It's your game, play it your way"

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

Just curious, if 7 games are interesting and full of suspense, and 9 games aren't; how do you manage to make it through a 162 game season?

That's an interesting question. Obviously I do make it through the long 162-game season. It's a different situation and a different mindset, is all I can offer. Heh, I certainly cannot remember nine-game World Series but I have recreated them in my simulations and that was the feeling that I had at the time when, say, a team was up four games to one or none. What, we could have four or five more games to play at this point?!?

During the regular season, of course, one does not think that way.

[NoOne]

9 vs 7.. or

It's ~30% more games! that sounds like a lot, eh?

if i wanted to be 100% rational about it, i'd go with whatever is feasible, first, and second wherever diminishing returns from extra games comes into play. (minimum necessary for 'best' team to win in all but crazy situations).

it would probably be too many and way too much effort... 7 sounds even better now.

[Le Grande Orange]

The issue with studying the matter is the relatively small number of best-of-9 series that have been played. The only other example that immediately comes to mind outside the World Series is the Junior World Series, which played a best-of-9 format 15 times between 1919-34.

The results:

5-4: 5 times
5-3: 5 times
5-2: 1 time
5-1: 3 times
5-0: 1 time

Note that the home rotation for these was 4-5; that is, four games in one city with the remaining five games in the other city.

[Hankyu Braves]

I only play fictional. League pennants are decided in 7, association pennants in 9.

[TGH-Adfabre]

I like to bump the Division round to best of 7 from 5. In a perfect world I would like a week cut off of ST and playoffs lengthened.

[venflaalachi]

Originally Posted by Hankyu Braves

I only play fictional. League pennants are decided in 7, association pennants in 9.

I like this. So your "semi-finals" are bests of 7 and your championship round is best of 9?

[jmknpk2]

In my new solo league, I'm going with 9 games in each series (quarter-finals, semis, and championship) to reduce the random luck in shorter series.

[Hankyu Braves]

Originally Posted by venflaalachi

I like this. So your "semi-finals" are bests of 7 and your championship round is best of 9?

Yes, it's the general idea.
My leagues are usually 8-10 teams organizations without divisions. To win the league pennant, assuming there's a postseason (split season format or top 3), a team needs to win 4 of 7. After a 154 game season, that's more than enough.

But the Association trophy is decided in 9 games (would be 11 if I could, I like to milk the cow real dry!).

You want the bragging rights? Go through the meat grinder first.

[Hankyu Braves]

Originally Posted by jmknpk2

In my new solo league, I'm going with 9 games in each series (quarter-finals, semis, and championship) to reduce the random luck in shorter series.

Damn! Any team ever going 5-4 three times to win the pennant?

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

The issue with studying the matter is the relatively small number of best-of-9 series that have been played. The only other example that immediately comes to mind outside the World Series is the Junior World Series, which played a best-of-9 format 15 times between 1919-34.

I just remembered some of the Caribbean winter leagues have also used best-of-9 series in some seasons. I only have partial data, however. (The winter leagues overall are relatively poorly covered in their basic league data, such as final standings and full playoff results.)

[venflaalachi]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

I just remembered some of the Caribbean winter leagues have also used best-of-9 series in some seasons. I only have partial data, however. (The winter leagues overall are relatively poorly covered in their basic league data, such as final standings and full playoff results.)

Interesting. Can I see the data?

[venflaalachi]

Originally Posted by jmknpk2

In my new solo league, I'm going with 9 games in each series (quarter-finals, semis, and championship) to reduce the random luck in shorter series.

Do you leave the home-away split for the higher seed at 5 home, 4 away? I've been doing 6 home, 3 away to reward the higher seed. A 3-3-3 split.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by venflaalachi

Interesting. Can I see the data?

I've got an Excel file in which i put final standings and playoff results. I've got results for most seasons going back to the early 1990s. For the last two seasons I've got complete results, which includes line scores for each regular season and post-season game. (The current winter league season is ongoing.)

I've also got some results from seasons in the 1950s-60s from coverage in TSN, though this is inconsistent and frequently incomplete.

I can post up the best-of-9 winter league results I do have. (Note that the home rotation used in these was frequently alternation; that is, one game in one team's park, the next game in the other team's park, the next in the first city again, and so on.)