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FOF - General Discussions Discuss the upcoming Front Office Football by OOTP Developments here.

 
 
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Old 12-28-2019, 08:25 PM   #241
mickey7
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When are you all going to realize that Francis passing away and Winter are NOT the issues ??? The issue is OOTP has promised a football game to it's customers for HOW MANY years now ???? That is the issue----all three developers have been working for OOTP----not for themselves----this is an OOTP game and it never seems to get finished !!!
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Old 01-04-2020, 07:48 PM   #242
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I'm leading the Shut the Front Door movement... You folks KNOW OOTP's history, we have 20 versions of the flagship game, we also know Jim Gindin created and carried FOF (and TCY) on his back for 10 seasons ( also noting the EXCELLENT support and forum helpers on both).

Personally I HATE Steam so much that I wouldn't buy FOF from them, and have suffered reading about the FREE updates Jim pushed out on his own...Now I have high hopes for this project and believe when it comes out, it will deliver a game that will NOT be perfect out of the gate, WILL require some hasty bug fixes, BUT will ultimately be a superior product...
Cool your heels Champs, we have been down this road before, and EVERY time Markus and Company has delivered!!! Not always on time, not always perfect, but ultimately superior gaming.

I've been playing OOTP since it wasn't called OOTP # and survived the ride so far... Have some faith keep on believing, they wouldn't do this for this long if it wasn't worthwhile!
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Old 01-07-2020, 06:30 PM   #243
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Personally, Markus’s last message was pretty disappointing. Multiple times they’ve mentioned a release “sometime in the fall/late summer” and never once has there been just the slightest mention “hey guys, sorry not this year.” Just another 6 months for a either “we don’t know when” or “we scrapped it.” I mean at this point nobody has heard from Jim, and he’s posting on his website about the nfl. There clearly is some disconnect going on. NFL Head Coach 09 is sufficient at this point.
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Old 01-08-2020, 02:40 PM   #244
Jim Gindin
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When I last posted about the game on my web site, I intended that to cover the period before it's appropriate for OOTP marketing to take over. The reasoning contained in that post applies just as much today as it did then. If the project were scrapped, I'd say something, because I'd be moving on to something new - probably not in the field of game development.

The last thing I want is to become defensive in any way here. Because what's going to happen when we get into that beta period is that OOTP's marketing arm (and they have one - Solecisimic was just me, and marketing is very, very different when you don't have someone who fully understands the current marketplace for games) will take over and you will learn about the game. They have become very good at this and the last thing anyone needs is me taking it upon myself to alter their work.

Until that point, and I very carefully illustrated that a few months ago, it's just not ideal for me to say much. Honestly, I like talking about the game. Forums just aren't great for that kind of thing. The crap people are giving Gary and Markus right now seems quite unfair. We're all just trying to create something.
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Old 01-08-2020, 05:54 PM   #245
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hopefully jim's post will end the unfounded speculations.

i still have my fix with FOF8 and its game engine, which is close to genius in my opinion. i learned a lot about the game of football by simulating with FOF8, and still do.
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Old 01-08-2020, 07:05 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by tzach View Post
hopefully jim's post will end the unfounded speculations.

i still have my fix with FOF8 and its game engine, which is close to genius in my opinion. i learned a lot about the game of football by simulating with FOF8, and still do.
On a personal level you seem like a really sound guy Zach, please don't think this is personal. But really I have no idea where you are coming from. The familiarity system that Jim coded in to the game is not serving its purpose. Okay, we are several years in and have all had hundreds of hours of enjoyment. Credit for that. I fail to see though how exploiting problems in the coding which lead to unrealistic output is fun, and certainly not a positive in any way.

You are passing the ball every down. Running play action passes with extreme success despite never giving the RB the ball. It makes a joke of the game and makes it look anything but "genius".
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Old 01-08-2020, 08:35 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by Jim Gindin View Post
When I last posted about the game on my web site, I intended that to cover the period before it's appropriate for OOTP marketing to take over. The reasoning contained in that post applies just as much today as it did then. If the project were scrapped, I'd say something, because I'd be moving on to something new - probably not in the field of game development.

The last thing I want is to become defensive in any way here. Because what's going to happen when we get into that beta period is that OOTP's marketing arm (and they have one - Solecisimic was just me, and marketing is very, very different when you don't have someone who fully understands the current marketplace for games) will take over and you will learn about the game. They have become very good at this and the last thing anyone needs is me taking it upon myself to alter their work.

Until that point, and I very carefully illustrated that a few months ago, it's just not ideal for me to say much. Honestly, I like talking about the game. Forums just aren't great for that kind of thing. The crap people are giving Gary and Markus right now seems quite unfair. We're all just trying to create something.

Below is the first post on this thread Jim, if you take what Marcus said yesterday that you guys are nowhere near Beta ( so maybe a release late 2020) that puts you nearly 2 years behind schedule and until very recently we've heard nothing in ages. Surely you can see why people where asking questions? You also have mentioned here you love talking about the game but forums are not a great place to talk about it, everyone one of us wants to hear about the game so please tell us where we can listen to you talk about the game, maybe a pod cast with Ben as the host?


Jim and our team (led by Andreas) have already worked together for over 8 months, laying the groundwork for a franchise reboot which will proudly carry the name "Front Office Football". We have not finished the final feature list, and we have not set a specific release date, although we are targeting late 2018 at the moment.

Last edited by thefatcat; 01-08-2020 at 08:39 PM.
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Old 01-08-2020, 10:40 PM   #248
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On a personal level you seem like a really sound guy Zach, please don't think this is personal. But really I have no idea where you are coming from. The familiarity system that Jim coded in to the game is not serving its purpose. Okay, we are several years in and have all had hundreds of hours of enjoyment. Credit for that. I fail to see though how exploiting problems in the coding which lead to unrealistic output is fun, and certainly not a positive in any way.

You are passing the ball every down. Running play action passes with extreme success despite never giving the RB the ball. It makes a joke of the game and makes it look anything but "genius".

thanks and likewise. also, please don't take personal what i say below. i don't mean to be rude or sound like i know everything (far from that). i'm coming from my background and what interested me first in this game, which is football analytics. everyone in this field knows that running the ball works very differently than what most people think by watching a football game.



to give you one example, there is no meaningful relationship between the effectiveness of play-action passing and a team's rushing statistics in the game to that point. maybe this breaks down at some point, but who knows. you can't blame the game engine for extrapolating.


https://www.footballoutsiders.com/st...action-passing


you referred to my all passing approach that i use in multi player leagues, but i have a lot of fun playing with heavy run or balanced offenses in SP. the only reason for not using that in mp is that it takes longer to build heavy run rosters (plus i don't call my plays in MP). i can score 40 points a game with either approach if i don't face a good defense. my preference for passing comes from the fact that most people don't know how a pass defense works, so i can easily exploit favorable matchups. there's different ways to win games, rushing or passing, and the choice is personal but it doesn't matter much for the final result if you know what you are doing.


i call the game engine genius work from jim because it allows a variety of approaches, producing realistic results based on what is expected from football analytics. i'm sorry if it sometimes doesn't produce the results that you want in multi player, but if you sim seasons in SP with AI controlled teams or rex, the fidelity of the results is amazing.
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Old 01-09-2020, 12:12 AM   #249
Mike D
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Originally Posted by thefatcat View Post
Below is the first post on this thread Jim, if you take what Marcus said yesterday that you guys are nowhere near Beta ( so maybe a release late 2020) that puts you nearly 2 years behind schedule and until very recently we've heard nothing in ages. Surely you can see why people where asking questions? You also have mentioned here you love talking about the game but forums are not a great place to talk about it, everyone one of us wants to hear about the game so please tell us where we can listen to you talk about the game, maybe a pod cast with Ben as the host?


Jim and our team (led by Andreas) have already worked together for over 8 months, laying the groundwork for a franchise reboot which will proudly carry the name "Front Office Football". We have not finished the final feature list, and we have not set a specific release date, although we are targeting late 2018 at the moment.
Glad I wasn't the only one who noticed that nearly 2 years after the initial announcement they are nowhere near beta.
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Old 01-09-2020, 04:09 AM   #250
Nature Boy
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Certainly when looking at Jim's work as a whole it is fantastic. Better than anyone else has achieved. But I am in no doubt that at this point we have a game breaking bug on our hands.

A game strength has always been about producing realistic stats. I can't believe the potential for 9000 yards passing in a season is something that should occur. The reason that is occurring is because the familiarity system that is supposed to hurt Offenses that show repetition isn't working properly.

The Play Action element is probably getting off the main topic a little. From the help file...

"This can help a receiver get open, but it also gives the pass rush a bit longer to break free."

When there is ABSOLUTELY NO THREAT of a running play the initial part of the equation "this can help a receiver to get open", should no longer apply. The "pass rush a bit longer to break free" on the other hand should apply. So Play Action should be dead in the water and not in the least bit helpful.

We have seen bugs over the years. Backloading contracts comes to mind. I am sorry I sound like a broken record on this, but I think it is really important the community, and Jim, understands there is a problem with the game.

No doubt people will start to copy this strategy. Stop bothering to draft OL with run blocking, RBs too. It becomes a cap workaround. Not just a gameplan exploit but one which affects the entire game. The All Pass Offense is simply exploiting a flaw in the game. An unintended flaw. I imagine it won't be a quick fix, but I really hope people recognise it for what it is.
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Old 01-09-2020, 06:48 AM   #251
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that puts you nearly 2 years behind schedule
No. There never was an official schedule, all we said was what we were hoping for. But things change constantly, and priorities shift around based on need, that's just normal in a small company as ours.
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Old 01-09-2020, 08:16 AM   #252
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No. There never was an official schedule, all we said was what we were hoping for. But things change constantly, and priorities shift around based on need, that's just normal in a small company as ours.
Here's a question though - obviously OOTP21 is coming soon and you mention the OOTP crunch in one of your latest posts on FOF. Will priorities be shifted following OOTP21's release to focus on FOF a little more? I'm sure you understand that at this point the fanbase just wanna see something.
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Old 01-09-2020, 08:44 AM   #253
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Here's a question though - obviously OOTP21 is coming soon and you mention the OOTP crunch in one of your latest posts on FOF. Will priorities be shifted following OOTP21's release to focus on FOF a little more? I'm sure you understand that at this point the fanbase just wanna see something.
We will probably have resources available once both OOTP 21 and OOTP Go! are released, yes. But again, things are not easy to plan at the moment, as the last 2 years our company has developed in a different way than anticipated.
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Old 01-09-2020, 11:07 AM   #254
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as the last 2 years our company has developed in a different way than anticipated.

In a good way?
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Old 01-09-2020, 12:41 PM   #255
thefatcat
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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
No. There never was an official schedule, all we said was what we were hoping for. But things change constantly, and priorities shift around based on need, that's just normal in a small company as ours.

Markus you mentioned you started this with Jim in June 2017, so after 2 and half years surely there is a semblance of a game to talk about or show us or something. Jim has done question and answers sessions with Ben before so could that not be done once again to give us some hope? That would be a huge win for the FOF community and a win for you guys as we'd all be a lot happier, MP leagues would be more inclined to hang it out for FOF9(they are falling apart at present). Also people say you are a really nice guy so i guess you'd love to do this for all your customers and future customers

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Old 01-09-2020, 12:48 PM   #256
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Old 01-09-2020, 01:56 PM   #257
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Markus you mentioned you started this with Jim in June 2017, so after 2 and half years surely there is a semblance of a game to talk about or show us or something. Jim has done question and answers sessions with Ben before so could that not be done once again to give us some hope? That would be a huge win for the FOF community and a win for you guys as we'd all be a lot happier, MP leagues would be more inclined to hang it out for FOF9(they are falling apart at present). Also people say you are a really nice guy so i guess you'd love to do this for all your customers and future customers
You just can't leave them alone, can you? Their answers are simply not good enough, you want more and more.

Jim has already said that the in-game graphics are the LAST thing that is implemented when everything else is done, so there are no pics to show you.

Here's a reason Jim shouldn't do a Q&A session before they hit beta, at least, if not closer to release: endless griping from people when something Jim mentions doesn't make it into the game. You'll point to how seventeen years ago Jim mentioned some tiny little detail that's still not in the game.

I'm starting to believe Jim's approach is best. Stay away from the forums and let certain folks endlessly bitch while you're busy developing the game. Clearly engaging some folks on the forums doesn't do anything but give them more ammo to bitch about. Who needs this perpetual negativity?
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Old 01-09-2020, 02:13 PM   #258
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You just can't leave them alone, can you? Their answers are simply not good enough, you want more and more.

Jim has already said that the in-game graphics are the LAST thing that is implemented when everything else is done, so there are no pics to show you.

Here's a reason Jim shouldn't do a Q&A session before they hit beta, at least, if not closer to release: endless griping from people when something Jim mentions doesn't make it into the game. You'll point to how seventeen years ago Jim mentioned some tiny little detail that's still not in the game.

I'm starting to believe Jim's approach is best. Stay away from the forums and let certain folks endlessly bitch while you're busy developing the game. Clearly engaging some folks on the forums doesn't do anything but give them more ammo to bitch about. Who needs this perpetual negativity?

Go away, Marcus is quite capable of speaking for himself. Why do you think you feel you can speak for him. If you don't like what i say block me but for god sake stop being a snowflake!
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Old 01-09-2020, 03:46 PM   #259
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Go away, Marcus is quite capable of speaking for himself. Why do you think you feel you can speak for him. If you don't like what i say block me but for god sake stop being a snowflake!
I know he is, I'm simply trying to drill it into your head that you continue to waste their time by making the same tired arguments over and over again.
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Old 01-09-2020, 04:02 PM   #260
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We will probably have resources available once both OOTP 21 and OOTP Go! are released, yes. But again, things are not easy to plan at the moment, as the last 2 years our company has developed in a different way than anticipated.
Thanks for the responses, Jim and Markus. Good to know the project is still moving along.
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