Pinging historical simulation fans

battists · 08-10-2009, 05:56 AM

Hi guys,

Are there any fans out there who enjoy doing historical "what-if" scenarios, such as "What would happen if the 1929 Yankees played the 1992 Yankees" or "What would have happened if Ted Williams hadn't gone to war?"

We're looking to do that sort of thing for marketing purposes, and we'd love to hear ideas from people!

Steve

Pronkytonk · 08-10-2009, 07:01 AM

I am definitely enjoying historical simulations with players not losing time to war or any other circumstances. I like to see players continue to play until their late 30s or early 40s without having their careers cut short by injuries or other things and watching teams develop in a league without many structural changes such as folding teams or relocation.

To me, to right mixture of historical accuracy and slight changes to history is the key to have fun while simming. Including minor league or virtual stats for years without major league service for major league players (as it is done with some modded DB's) may lead to a more realistic player "development" w/ recalc on so this could be one thing to be considered in this area.

I am sure many people would love to have the possibility to import historical players into a league with a little less effort (as was mentioned various times before ...)

TribeFanInNC · 08-10-2009, 07:56 AM

I find these types of scenarios very fun. I wrote a dynasty here about if the Cleveland Indians never traded Rocky Colavito and Norm Cash prior to the 1960 season, though it was using the 2007 version.

The 'what if this trade never happened' scenario can be pretty fun while still giving you the feel of recreating actual baseball history. There are plenty of trades that could follow this mold.

PhillieFever · 08-10-2009, 08:15 AM

I also think something like this would be fun,but in order to do it the game is going to have to get it's P's and Q's in order to avoid embarrassment,meaning pitcher's the likes of Dizzy Dean,Steve Carlton,Ron Guidry,and Smokey Joe Wood do not import as relievers because they have only two pitches.Also,pitcher repertoires need to fixed,so that yes Phil Niekro and Tim Wakefield are knuckleball pitchers while Bert Blyleven has the best curveball known to man.There are other things as well,such as fielding problems,and sluggers in the steroid era being way too powerful,but the pitching thing needs to be fixed first.

SteveP · 08-10-2009, 01:44 PM

I have no doubt that advertising that gamers could have teams from different eras playing each other would be an effective marketing tool, and get more people to try OOTP. I also predict you'd have to create another forum specifically for people to complain about whether it was working realistically or not. But that's half the fun.

Spritze · 08-10-2009, 03:10 PM

Since neutralized stats level the field of play one can easily mix players of different eras such as the battist feller is asking about.

BUT

The challenge is that if one imports Mr. Williams and his .406 season into a 1907 historical league that uses recalc, after one season he is no more as the rest of his historical stats do not follow him.

clamel · 08-12-2009, 07:49 AM

I think it would be fun

B U T

fix the import of pitch selection first and don´t issue a new fine thing before you get the other advertised stuff to work.

Why not concentrate on perhaps the transition of players to coaches, managers and such.
It should be handled with better results when you create a coach from a historical player.
Today the outcome is horrible.

The pitching stuff is what I think a such huge issue and can never be perfect. The name of the game is PITCHING isn´t it.
So whatever you could put down in manhours, but it on pitching ..

Jah · 08-12-2009, 04:03 PM

Sounds fun, but there are some issues with historical play, as already noted here - plus I don't know how many times I've read on these boards that "the AI doesn't know names, just ratings" - so be careful pushing the "real players" aspect of the game until certain issues have been resolved (PhillieFever mentioned most of them).

If the key issues aren't addressed, the 1929 Yankees or 1992 Yankees or whoever may not accurately resemble the teams they were in real life...which may be an automatic turn-off for potential new customers attracted to the "what-if" style of play.

rewc27 · 08-12-2009, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battists

Hi guys,

Are there any fans out there who enjoy doing historical "what-if" scenarios, such as "What would happen if the 1929 Yankees played the 1992 Yankees" or "What would have happened if Ted Williams hadn't gone to war?"

We're looking to do that sort of thing for marketing purposes, and we'd love to hear ideas from people!

Steve

Steve I just started a mixed history baseball league using a random debut database. I had a lot of interest and we are about half way through the first season.

So far stealing the show, a young Babe Ruth and Fred McGriff supplying the power. Biggest shock, Davy Force a career .249 hitter hitting over .400 and currently has hit straight in 32 straight games.

Mixed History Baseball

gene21253 · 09-06-2009, 08:56 AM

That is the thing I dont like about the game .This type of stat is way way out of line and should not happen

risp2out · 09-06-2009, 11:10 AM

I like these scenarios a lot. For my money, the most interesting would be "What if baseball had been integrated from the start?" or "What if baseball has integrated the Negro Leagues?" Including a database with the segregated players/teams that could be used with the standard historical database would be very cool. A good deal of this work seems to have been done. [I can say unequivocally that seeing this advertised would automatically convince me to purchase.]

I also really like the concept - there is a Dynasty to this effect - "What if the high Minors had become Independent Major Leagues?" I think there is enough info to create reasonable databases for AA or PCL back to the early 20th century (for someone who works much less than I do, anyway.)

Another thing that would be neat, but would probably take some development, is really accurate historical park factors. I'd love to know how the 63-67 Dodgers would have fared at Ebbets, for example.

08-10-2009, 05:56 AM	#1
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506 Blog Entries: 7	Pinging historical simulation fans Hi guys, Are there any fans out there who enjoy doing historical "what-if" scenarios, such as "What would happen if the 1929 Yankees played the 1992 Yankees" or "What would have happened if Ted Williams hadn't gone to war?" We're looking to do that sort of thing for marketing purposes, and we'd love to hear ideas from people! Steve __________________ Come check out my dynasty report, Funky Times!

08-10-2009, 07:01 AM	#2
Pronkytonk Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Germany Posts: 168	I am definitely enjoying historical simulations with players not losing time to war or any other circumstances. I like to see players continue to play until their late 30s or early 40s without having their careers cut short by injuries or other things and watching teams develop in a league without many structural changes such as folding teams or relocation. To me, to right mixture of historical accuracy and slight changes to history is the key to have fun while simming. Including minor league or virtual stats for years without major league service for major league players (as it is done with some modded DB's) may lead to a more realistic player "development" w/ recalc on so this could be one thing to be considered in this area. I am sure many people would love to have the possibility to import historical players into a league with a little less effort (as was mentioned various times before ...) Last edited by Pronkytonk; 08-10-2009 at 07:07 AM.

08-10-2009, 08:15 AM	#4
PhillieFever Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Elk Twp. NJ Posts: 6,763	I also think something like this would be fun,but in order to do it the game is going to have to get it's P's and Q's in order to avoid embarrassment,meaning pitcher's the likes of Dizzy Dean,Steve Carlton,Ron Guidry,and Smokey Joe Wood do not import as relievers because they have only two pitches.Also,pitcher repertoires need to fixed,so that yes Phil Niekro and Tim Wakefield are knuckleball pitchers while Bert Blyleven has the best curveball known to man.There are other things as well,such as fielding problems,and sluggers in the steroid era being way too powerful,but the pitching thing needs to be fixed first. __________________ We're All Wednesday Aren't We? WAWAW

08-12-2009, 04:03 PM	#8
Jah Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 148	Sounds fun, but there are some issues with historical play, as already noted here - plus I don't know how many times I've read on these boards that "the AI doesn't know names, just ratings" - so be careful pushing the "real players" aspect of the game until certain issues have been resolved (PhillieFever mentioned most of them). If the key issues aren't addressed, the 1929 Yankees or 1992 Yankees or whoever may not accurately resemble the teams they were in real life...which may be an automatic turn-off for potential new customers attracted to the "what-if" style of play. Last edited by Jah; 08-12-2009 at 05:27 PM.

08-10-2009, 07:56 AM	#3
TribeFanInNC Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,019	I find these types of scenarios very fun. I wrote a dynasty here about if the Cleveland Indians never traded Rocky Colavito and Norm Cash prior to the 1960 season, though it was using the 2007 version. The 'what if this trade never happened' scenario can be pretty fun while still giving you the feel of recreating actual baseball history. There are plenty of trades that could follow this mold.

08-10-2009, 01:44 PM	#5
SteveP Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 3,109	I have no doubt that advertising that gamers could have teams from different eras playing each other would be an effective marketing tool, and get more people to try OOTP. I also predict you'd have to create another forum specifically for people to complain about whether it was working realistically or not. But that's half the fun.

08-10-2009, 03:10 PM	#6
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,254	Since neutralized stats level the field of play one can easily mix players of different eras such as the battist feller is asking about. BUT The challenge is that if one imports Mr. Williams and his .406 season into a 1907 historical league that uses recalc, after one season he is no more as the rest of his historical stats do not follow him.

08-12-2009, 07:49 AM	#7
clamel All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Across the Pond Posts: 1,033	I think it would be fun B U T fix the import of pitch selection first and don´t issue a new fine thing before you get the other advertised stuff to work. Why not concentrate on perhaps the transition of players to coaches, managers and such. It should be handled with better results when you create a coach from a historical player. Today the outcome is horrible. The pitching stuff is what I think a such huge issue and can never be perfect. The name of the game is PITCHING isn´t it. So whatever you could put down in manhours, but it on pitching ..

09-06-2009, 08:56 AM	#10
gene21253 Bat Boy Join Date: May 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 15	That is the thing I dont like about the game .This type of stat is way way out of line and should not happen

09-06-2009, 11:10 AM	#11
risp2out All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 648	I like these scenarios a lot. For my money, the most interesting would be "What if baseball had been integrated from the start?" or "What if baseball has integrated the Negro Leagues?" Including a database with the segregated players/teams that could be used with the standard historical database would be very cool. A good deal of this work seems to have been done. [I can say unequivocally that seeing this advertised would automatically convince me to purchase.] I also really like the concept - there is a Dynasty to this effect - "What if the high Minors had become Independent Major Leagues?" I think there is enough info to create reasonable databases for AA or PCL back to the early 20th century (for someone who works much less than I do, anyway.) Another thing that would be neat, but would probably take some development, is really accurate historical park factors. I'd love to know how the 63-67 Dodgers would have fared at Ebbets, for example.