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Suggestions for Future OOTP Versions Post suggestions for the next version of Out of the Park Baseball here! |
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09-25-2013, 11:29 PM | #1 |
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A plea to increase the number of ethnicities
One of my pet peeves with OOTP since it was redesigned from the ground up in 2006 is the absurdly low number of ethnicities. The game includes every nation state in the world, but, sadly, only 39 distinct ethnic groups in the ethnicity file, including several ( Armenian, Polish, Azerbaijani, Turkish, Serbian ) that wouldn't know a baseball from a severed yak testicle.
Worst of all, however, is the fact that the one area of the planet where the love & passion for baseball is strongest, Caribbean/Latin America, is represented in the game by the ridiculously generic & all-encompassing (and to some, insulting) tag of "Hispanic". Believe it or not, for those of you not familiar with the world south of the Rio Grande, each Caribbean & continental Latin American nation has its own distinct culture. Naming practices, dialects, and yes, ethno-racial composition can vary greatly from nation to nation. Nations like Cuba & the Dominican Republic have a distinct Afro-Caribbean culture, whereas the cultures of nations like Mexico & Venezuela posses more of a Mestizo/European/Native-American influence. Mind you, I'm not objecting to the presence of so many distinct European ethnicities being present in the game, nor am I advocating that the individual ethnic groups already in the game be removed. It just seems a little strange to me that a baseball game by default should make the distinction between German & Austrian, but not Cuban & Mexican. In fact, considering how few native-born Europeans are playing in the big leagues (a whopping two - Alex Liddi & Donald Lutz), it would actually make more sense for a baseball game of this sort to contain a generic "European" ethnicity for Europe while distinguishing between Latin American nations. I'm sure those 4 or 5 people in Eastern Poland that actually follow MLB won't object. Sub-Saharan Africa, which contains even more distinct ethnic groups and languages than the whole of Europe combined, has similarly received short shrift in the game, but that's another story. Yes, Markus made OOTP flexible enough to allow us to edit the ethnicity & world_default files to our heart's content, but, that's not the answer. The current cap on the number of ethnicities should be removed if technically possible.
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09-26-2013, 12:11 AM | #2 |
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The fact that the game was designed and created by a European might explain the distinction between European ethnicities.
But yes, I completely agree. |
09-26-2013, 03:36 AM | #3 |
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Perhaps, but I would've guessed that it was the two years or so that Markus spent with SI that had more of an influence on it than anything else. Markus' time with SI was crucial in terms of enabling him to take the franchise a giant leap forward (no global database pre-2006), but in some ways (this issue being one of them), the game mirrors an outdated version of FM.
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09-26-2013, 06:38 AM | #4 |
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I agree with the over-all concept here, but am against any "generic" ethnicity for Europe.
Not everyone plays this game to model real life. There are many of us who like OOTP because "You can play it your own way" and not necessarily have to follow what's in the real world. |
09-26-2013, 08:44 AM | #5 |
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Ideally there should be up to 256 ethnicities in the file, even if not all of them are used by default.
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09-26-2013, 02:36 PM | #6 | ||||
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09-27-2013, 02:57 AM | #7 | |||
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Cuba: 65.05% White, 23.84% Mixed Race (Black & White), Black 10.08%, Asian 1.02% Cubans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Mexico: Mestizo (mixed White & Native American) 60-80%, White 9-17%, Black 2%. What is Mexico's ethnicity The diversity clearly evident in just these two Latin American nations alone should justify the elimination of the one-size-fits-all "Hispanic" ethnicity in the game. There are no two Latin American nations that are demographically alike. In fact, you'll find equally different demo info for virtually any part of Latin America you research (Puerto Rico: 75.8% White, 24.2% Non-White - Venezuela: Mestizo 67%, White 21%, 10% Black, Amerindian 2%, etc.). As far Germany & Austria are concerned, they are far more homogeneous than any two Latin American nations, even with recent trends in immigration factored in. Germany: 92.3% German Austria: 88.6% German Quote:
I'd rather have them all.
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09-27-2013, 08:51 AM | #8 | ||
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No disagreement from me. |
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09-28-2013, 02:11 AM | #9 | |
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Spain: White Spaniards 88% Mexico: Mestizo (mixed White & Native American) 60-80%, White 9-17%, Black 2% Cuba: 65.05% White, 23.84% Mixed Race (Black & White), Black 10.08%, Asian 1.02% Venezuela: Mestizo 67%, White 21%, Black 10%, Amerindian 2% Panama: 70% is Mestizo (mixed white, Native American), 14% is primarily black and mulattoes, 10% white and 6% Native Americans Puerto Rico: 75.8% White, 24.2% non-white Columbia: 49% Mestizo (European and Amerindian, 37% White (European).10,6% Afro-Colombian, includes Mulatto (European and Black/African) and Zambo (African and Amerindian), 3.4% Amerindian. Peru: Mestizos: 47% Amerindians: 31% European: 18.5% Afro-Peruvians: 2% Asians and others: 1% Argentina: White (mostly Spanish and Italian) 97%; mestizo, Amerindian, other 3% Now, considering how different each one of the above nations are from one another demographically, do you still think that it makes sense for the game to treat all Spanish-speaking nations as a single entity? Again, if the difference between German and Austrian can be made in the game, than the difference between Cuban and Mexican should be made as well, let alone Spaniard and Cuban, or Peruvian and Puerto Rican.
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"If you don't know where you are going, you'll wind up someplace else." - Lawrence Peter Berra Last edited by Caporegime; 09-28-2013 at 02:18 AM. |
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09-28-2013, 02:16 AM | #10 |
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Absolutely! Markus wouldn't have to do any extra work creating these ethnicities or their associated name files. If possible from a programming standpoint, simply allowing us the option to do so ourselves would more than suffice.
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09-28-2013, 02:17 AM | #11 |
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I somehow missed this.
Really, really, really good points, Caporegime. I couldn't agree with you more. In fact I'm posting a link to this on the beta forum right now, hopefully that will generate some additional discussion. Maybe we can actually get this changed. Last edited by Lukas Berger; 09-28-2013 at 02:24 AM. |
09-28-2013, 02:25 AM | #12 |
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Thanks! As you could probably tell, I feel really passionate about this issue. Let's hope the right people notice and agree this needs to be addressed.
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09-28-2013, 12:47 PM | #13 |
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I think we need to fill up what we have, before we make Markus change the programming.
There are NOT 39 different ethnicities needed in the game, so you can easily replace useless ones with ones that make more sense. Questdog's Names for OOTP 14 adds African-American names to the mix. The ONLY country that could really use it's own slot (that cuurently is without) is Cuba. Their names are definitely different enough from the rest of the Hispanic countries to warrant it. However, making a Cuban list needs to be done before we put them in the file......I've been doing this for years and have not yet been able to make a good enough list for Cuban names to justify inclusion...... So, make your lists and then complain about the lack of elbow room once you actually run out...... |
09-28-2013, 12:57 PM | #14 |
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I have stats and names in an OO calculate sheet for everyone who's played in the Cuban league in the last 12 years. Now those names wouldn't do in and of themselves since we'd want the list to reflect that of the general Cuban population, not just of recent Serie Nacional players. But it is a start. If you or someone wanted to build on that data I'd be happy to send it.
Last edited by Lukas Berger; 09-28-2013 at 01:06 PM. |
09-28-2013, 01:29 PM | #15 | |
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09-28-2013, 01:52 PM | #16 | |
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I've added maybe around two hundred Venezuelans names and last names so far, and started on Cuban and Dominican names. Not much but I haven't had the time to work on them. So even if the devs don't add them, more slots for ethnicities would allow us to add them without eliminating the ones already there. |
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09-28-2013, 01:57 PM | #17 | |
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I've wondered if a name file drawn from the names and ethnicity of actual players might be a serviceable alternative. |
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09-28-2013, 02:03 PM | #18 | |
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https://data.cityofnewyork.us/City-G...city/iyrc-jsee |
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09-28-2013, 02:09 PM | #19 |
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09-28-2013, 05:04 PM | #20 | |
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I have the data for Cuba, if anyone wants it. I'm not going to be able to take on any work on the ethnicities myself, I have too much roster work to do, but would be happy to provide whatever support I can to whoever can do so. Last edited by Lukas Berger; 09-28-2013 at 05:11 PM. |
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