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Suggestions for Future OOTP Versions Post suggestions for the next version of Out of the Park Baseball here! |
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11-04-2013, 09:18 PM | #21 |
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I want to make it clear that I am not asking for random spikes that are 4-5 times average attendance. That would be a little silly.
But Opening Day, and end of season when the team is in a close race for the pennant? That did happen in real life, so to my way of thinking, there's no reason why it shouldn't happen in this game. |
11-04-2013, 09:29 PM | #22 | |
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If that is the case, I don't know how a computer simulation could accurately reflect this. Regarding the end of the season, I would be interested to know how average attendances rise throughout the season if a team is in a close race. I would have expected that a team's average would have been gradually rising throughout the season, lessening the percentage rise for a crucial game late in the season. I'm still not sure how easy it would be to incorporate attendance variations late in the season if the league's overall average attendance has already been determined in the settings. Last edited by as5680; 11-04-2013 at 09:35 PM. |
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11-04-2013, 10:31 PM | #23 | |||
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Also, I have already acknowledged above that in an environment in which the entire season sells at 71% capacity--and where the worst attendance team still sells 45% of its capacity--a 4x-5x bump is impossible. But in a situation where baseball is the new rage, attendance averages 2,000 in a 10,000 park, and you get a big event like Opening Day, it's not only possible, it's likely. Quote:
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I don't think this would be as hard as you're suggesting it might. I think all it would take is someone with a little imagination, a facility with Retrosheet, and half-way decent coding skills. |
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11-04-2013, 10:58 PM | #24 | |
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11-04-2013, 10:58 PM | #25 | |
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One thing I've found from with OOTP though is that sometimes things that seem like they should be easy to code turn out to be tricky enough to give Markus fits, while he'll sometimes implement stuff that seems really tricky easily. So I don't like to make assumptions on how hard or easy something will be to code. If your idea is in fact easy enough to code then it would be great to see it implemented. Last edited by Lukas Berger; 11-04-2013 at 10:59 PM. |
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11-04-2013, 11:57 PM | #26 |
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I do not use any season before the early 1950s or so for attendance analysis. That's because Retrosheet's game logs only have attendance figures for most or all the games in a season from that period onwards. Before then the records are incomplete, and often the only figures available are rough estimates. Thus the data is not complete nor accurate enough to make any sort of meaningful analysis.
I'll note also you're looking at it in terms of capacity. I do not understand why you are looking at it that way. I think it makes more sense to look at it in terms of a comparison to other regular season games, since a home opener is an 'event' that either draws better or worse than a 'regular' game, much as a holiday or Sunday or other game might draw. It's the relationship between the typical attendance on different days at different times and situations which establish attendance patterns that can be replicated. (I would point out that, technically speaking, the maximum attendance of a game is the real park maximum capacity, and not a somewhat more arbitrary listing of the number of seats. Bleachers—being bench seating—in particular made it difficult to estimate the true capacity of a park since varying numbers of people could be squeezed in. There's also standing room only tickets. To me the maximum capacity of a park is the total maximum number that can attend a game.) Last edited by Le Grande Orange; 11-05-2013 at 12:00 AM. |
11-05-2013, 07:41 AM | #27 |
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I think it would be more than just programming attendance spikes. There would likely be some financial implications that would have to be accounted for too. If you have a tight race with 3,4 or even 5 teams in the last month, suddenly you've got a few teams with a large revenue increase.
How is that going to affect the over-all league financials? I don't know, just throwing it out there. |
11-05-2013, 11:14 AM | #28 | |
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This is why I would suggest, in the absence of much more detailed or complete data, that the figures over 4-5x higher are anomalies to be explained by real world factors specific to those particular situations, rather than an overall trend. In reality, there must have been a reason why Cincinnati's opening crowd was so many times higher than average while for Boston there was virtually no difference. Or why Cincinnati's opening crowd was almost the same as the Giants despite an overall average about a third that of the Giants. It is impossible to see a pattern to the increases from the available data alone. All I am suggesting is that if this is the case, it is very difficult to reflect unquantifiable/unknown historical real world factors in a simulation. If three teams out of 10 were to have an increase of 4-5x or more, to reflect the 1929 example, it would inevitably have to be random to some extent as to which teams they were. I'm not sure that I would want to see that. Last edited by as5680; 11-05-2013 at 11:16 AM. |
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11-05-2013, 01:35 PM | #29 | |
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That's why I used a winky-wink. It wasn't meant to be mean-spirited. Please don't take it seriously.
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All I can say is that in my own league, which has an average attendance setting of 1,414 but ended up with an actual average attendance of 1,780, the Opening Day crowds averaged only 1.29x the final season attendance averages, with a range of 2.03x down to 0.77x (and three teams under 1.00). Furthermore, only one of the twelve teams exceeded 66% capacity for their Opening Day tilt, and fully half of the clubs were under 30% capacity for theirs. I've been following baseball for 45 years and have been a SABR member for 25 of those, and I can tell you with complete confidence that simply does not pass the smell test. It just doesn't. And I believe it should be closely reviewed. |
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01-24-2015, 10:08 PM | #30 |
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Very true
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01-21-2016, 01:31 AM | #31 |
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I would also love it if you could set up about 3 rivalries per team. In addition to increased attendance, I would suggest that results of the rivalry games could have higher effects on player morale, a greater impact on owner reaction/likelihood of being fired if performing poorly vs your rival, and a higher chance of player ejections.
A related item I'd like to see concerning the rivalries, is the ability in the team screen to see all-time records vs all other teams (if this can currently be done, I guess I just haven't figured it out). |
02-01-2016, 11:28 PM | #32 |
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i'd rather OOTP track how heated a rivalry between teams got.
i had a spreadsheet that would track it for our old Laseron league. i did it post mortem, to compare the franchises. i made it where the closer the teams finished in the standings the more heat the rivalry had. This was only if the teams were in the hunt for the playoffs. Teams that met in the playoffs would also get some heat. And the deeper the series went the more heat the rivalry. And the bigger the stakes, the more heat. So playing each other in the wild card, wasn't as heated as if they met in the League Championship series. The rivalry would grow if they met one of the criteria above in consecutive years, and it would dissipate if they didn't meet the criteria above. The only thing i would add, that i didn't have then is that teams that were relatively close got a slight bonus. Also, i would like to see spikes for teams that had national followings like New York and Boston would draw bigger crowds when they came to town. |
02-02-2016, 09:57 PM | #33 |
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An interesting system for fictional leagues would be for rivalries to be determined dynamically based on certain criteria and results from within that league itself. (I put a little thought into such a system awhile back, trying to determine what criteria should go into determining a rivalry, and how to weight such criteria.)
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