Minor Leaguers Get No Credit For Pro Years?

[chucksabr]

I have an independent minor league that's been going on for three years, and even though the players are drawing a paycheck, none of the guys there are getting credit for pro years.

Here's the roster of one of the teams, and the pro years is on the right:



Yet, here's the first guy on the roster, Rhys Brown, and you can see he's been playing for all three years, bottom right:



Perhaps 15 can address this?

[Fyrestorm3]

It's simply the fact that you have the league set to AAA level. The game only considers MLB-level leagues to be "pro" leagues. And honestly, I don't really see how this could be improved upon, short of a checkbox to force the computer to recognize it as a pro league. And even that might not work right.

[Marinersfan51]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

It's simply the fact that you have the league set to AAA level. The game only considers MLB-level leagues to be "pro" leagues. And honestly, I don't really see how this could be improved upon, short of a checkbox to force the computer to recognize it as a pro league. And even that might not work right.

The game recognized MLB affiliated minor league teams as pro teams, if that's what you're saying. A AAA team that is tied to a major league accumulates pro years.

[blasek0]

Originally Posted by Marinersfan51

The game recognized MLB affiliated minor league teams as pro teams, if that's what you're saying. A AAA team that is tied to a major league accumulates pro years.

But a completely unaffiliated minor league doesn't count as pro years. Like how service time in independent leagues doesn't count as pro service time for MLB or MiLB. Same with Cuban players who played in Serie Nacional or Japanese players from *** don't have their service time from those leagues considered as MLB service time.

[chucksabr]

Originally Posted by blasek0

But a completely unaffiliated minor league doesn't count as pro years. Like how service time in independent leagues doesn't count as pro service time for MLB or MiLB. Same with Cuban players who played in Serie Nacional or Japanese players from *** don't have their service time from those leagues considered as MLB service time.

What is the exact implication of this? Why would an MLB affiliated minor league team count as a pro year, but an unaffiliated professional minor league team not? Why does the Game need to make that distinction? If it's meant to separate out leagues that don't accrue to MLB service time, as in your Cuban example, is it no true that MiLB time does not accrue to MLB service time? Yet a year spent there still counts as a pro year.

My bottom line question is, why does it have to be that way?

[le receveur]

Originally Posted by chucksabr

What is the exact implication of this? Why would an MLB affiliated minor league team count as a pro year, but an unaffiliated professional minor league team not? Why does the Game need to make that distinction? If it's meant to separate out leagues that don't accrue to MLB service time, as in your Cuban example, is it no true that MiLB time does not accrue to MLB service time? Yet a year spent there still counts as a pro year.

My bottom line question is, why does it have to be that way?

the main reason it is needed in MiLB is to prevent team from hoarding prospects. In modern time after a certain time they be eligible for Rule 5 draft, if you have not but them on your 40-man roster. (this time frame has varied through CBAs currently 4 or 5 years).
Also after so many year, the players earned the right to be free agents..

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by le receveur

the main reason it is needed in MiLB is to prevent team from hoarding prospects. In modern time after a certain time they be eligible for Rule 5 draft, if you have not but them on your 40-man roster. (this time frame has varied through CBAs currently 4 or 5 years).
Also after so many year, the players earned the right to be free agents..

For some reason this made me imagine a situation where a team could do a less-than-legal deal with an indy team as a way of hoarding prospects...

As to the thread, maybe there should be a check box for each league in a universe saying something like "counts towards pro service" or something.

[blasek0]

Originally Posted by chucksabr

What is the exact implication of this? Why would an MLB affiliated minor league team count as a pro year, but an unaffiliated professional minor league team not? Why does the Game need to make that distinction? If it's meant to separate out leagues that don't accrue to MLB service time, as in your Cuban example, is it no true that MiLB time does not accrue to MLB service time? Yet a year spent there still counts as a pro year.

My bottom line question is, why does it have to be that way?

MLB service time and MiLB service time are different things. That's what OOTP is referring to by ML Service time and "Pro Service time".

Case 1: Bob is drafted by the Mets at 18. He plays in the Mets minor league system for 5 seasons, but they never add him to the 40 man roster. He has 5 years of MiLB service time ("Pro Years"), but 0 years of MLB service. He's eligible for the Rule V draft at this point. Nobody drafts him in the Rule V, and he's still in the Mets' MiLB system for another two seasons. They again elect not to add him to the 40-man roster. At this point, Bob has 7 Pro Years, and is eligible to file for free agency from the minor leagues.

Case 2: Bob is drafted by the Mets. He spends 4 years in the minor leagues, before the Mets decide to call him up for Opening Day in the start of his 5th season. Opening Day, Bob now has 4 Pro Years (and a day), and 1 day of MLB service. He's on the ML roster now, so his Pro Years are no longer relevant as long as he's on a 40 man roster. He'll be eligible to file for Free Agency at 6 years of MLB Service time.

Case 3: Bob doesn't get drafted, and signs with the North Compton Bobcats, a completely fictional indy league team. He plays there for 2 years, before the Mets buy him from the Bobcats. Bob, even though he played 2 years of professional baseball, didn't play those 2 years for an affiliated league, and thus has 0 Pro Years.

Edit: As an example, start up an MLB quickstart, and look at the service times and pro years of various players. Many veterans will have 10+ pro years, but often significantly fewer MLB service time years. However, a player like Ichiro or Darvish, who came directly from *** into MLB, have identical amounts of Pro Years and MLB service time.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by blasek0

However, a player like Ichiro or Darvish, who came directly from *** into MLB, have identical amounts of Pro Years and MLB service time.

FYI John Olerud was drafted and went to MLB in 1989. Until 2005 he had not played in a minor league game. I think Al Kaline and Dave Winfield never played any minor league games.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by chucksabr

What is the exact implication of this? Why would an MLB affiliated minor league team count as a pro year, but an unaffiliated professional minor league team not? Why does the Game need to make that distinction?

Pro service time also factors into minor league free agency (though OOTP actually calculates this in a more complicated fashion than is the case in real life).

In real life there is the fourth option year that some players are subject to, which also relies on pro service time—specifically, seasons spent in short season leagues are not counted when it comes to determining whether a player is subject to a fourth option year. (Note that OOTP does not recreate the fourth option year rule.)

Originally Posted by blasek0

Case 1: Bob is drafted by the Mets at 18. He plays in the Mets minor league system for 5 seasons, but they never add him to the 40 man roster. He has 5 years of MiLB service time ("Pro Years"), but 0 years of MLB service. He's eligible for the Rule V draft at this point. Nobody drafts him in the Rule V, and he's still in the Mets' MiLB system for another two seasons. They again elect not to add him to the 40-man roster. At this point, Bob has 7 Pro Years, and is eligible to file for free agency from the minor leagues.

Just to clarify this, in real life being on the 40-man roster does not matter at all in regards to a player's minor league free agency calculation. All that matters is whether a player spent any part of a season on the roster of a minor league club—that means time on option while on the 40-man roster counts towards the seven seasons a player has to spend in the minors before he can file for minor league free agency.

[le receveur]

Originally Posted by blasek0

Edit: As an example, start up an MLB quickstart, and look at the service times and pro years of various players. Many veterans will have 10+ pro years, but often significantly fewer MLB service time years. However, a player like Ichiro or Darvish, who came directly from *** into MLB, have identical amounts of Pro Years and MLB service time.

but they have negotiating powers, which the new CBA does not allow to new draftees. For example Munenori Kawasaki with 2 years of pro, and technically options left, became a FA when the Jays didn`t select his $1 million option, whereas a recent draftee he would have been renewed automatically as at minimum salary

[blasek0]

Originally Posted by RchW

FYI John Olerud was drafted and went to MLB in 1989. Until 2005 he had not played in a minor league game. I think Al Kaline and Dave Winfield never played any minor league games.

Situations like this are less common with drafted players, however, especially in the "modern era".

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Pro service time also factors into minor league free agency (though OOTP actually calculates this in a more complicated fashion than is the case in real life).

In real life there is the fourth option year that some players are subject to, which also relies on pro service time—specifically, seasons spent in short season leagues are not counted when it comes to determining whether a player is subject to a fourth option year. (Note that OOTP does not recreate the fourth option year rule.)


Just to clarify this, in real life being on the 40-man roster does not matter at all in regards to a player's minor league free agency calculation. All that matters is whether a player spent any part of a season on the roster of a minor league club—that means time on option while on the 40-man roster counts towards the seven seasons a player has to spend in the minors before he can file for minor league free agency.

Thanks for expanding on and clarifying that.

[pjh5165]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

For some reason this made me imagine a situation where a team could do a less-than-legal deal with an indy team as a way of hoarding prospects...

the players would never go for that. they want as much pro time as possible

[le receveur]

Originally Posted by pjh5165

the players would never go for that. they want as much pro time as possible

but don't forget the Union doesn't represent them until to make the majors, so they would have little clout, except with the courts..

[RchW]

Originally Posted by blasek0

Situations like this are less common with drafted players, however, especially in the "modern era".

My point was that it doesn't have to be foreign players. It's possible with any player though extremely rare.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by le receveur

but don't forget the Union doesn't represent them until to make the majors, so they would have little clout, except with the courts..

Good point. One thing that piques my curiosity is how Cespedes of Oakland got a deal that lets him become a FA after 2015. If I was Mike Trout or Bryce Harper or any of the recently drafted phenoms, I'd be asking how the PA lets undrafted FA get the money first while they have to wait. It's clearly inequitable and to me subject to a legal challenge given that the PA supposedly represents all players.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by RchW

I'd be asking how the PA lets undrafted FA get the money first while they have to wait. It's clearly inequitable and to me subject to a legal challenge given that the PA supposedly represents all players.

It represents all players on the 40-man rosters. If you're not on the 40-man roster, you're not part of the MLBPA.

[blasek0]

Originally Posted by RchW

Good point. One thing that piques my curiosity is how Cespedes of Oakland got a deal that lets him become a FA after 2015. If I was Mike Trout or Bryce Harper or any of the recently drafted phenoms, I'd be asking how the PA lets undrafted FA get the money first while they have to wait. It's clearly inequitable and to me subject to a legal challenge given that the PA supposedly represents all players.

It's like how Beltran got a deal with the Mets saying that they couldn't offer him arbitration when his contract expired, thus he wasn't able to have draft picks attached to him. He got a deal like that because he was allowed to, and made sure to include such a clause in his contract.

Harper or Strasburg *could* have had clauses like that in their contract, theoretically, but the draft limits their negotiating power significantly, so there was no way one was going to get put in.

MLBPA makes a habit out of throwing minor leaguers / draftees / international signees under the bus, because those players aren't part of their union, and yet they get to negotiate their rights.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

It represents all players on the 40-man rosters. If you're not on the 40-man roster, you're not part of the MLBPA.

I don't know too many foreign FA with multiyear multimillion $ contracts who are not on 40-man rosters. Who did you think I was referring to?

My point is that any player who plays and is educated in North America has a limit placed on his earnings that doesn't apply to those outside. It may be simplistic but that is wrong.

[pjh5165]

Originally Posted by le receveur

but don't forget the Union doesn't represent them until to make the majors, so they would have little clout, except with the courts..

Very true. I was just saying that assuming they are a legitimate prospect with a real chance of making it to the MLB, they would never sign with an independent league team with the current rules about professional time. They want to get their "time as a professional" up so that they will make the organization either put them on a 40 man roster or offer another team a chance to do so in the Rule 5.