Send Forced?

1998 Yankees · 08-15-2006, 04:53 PM

In the Don't Know Much About Baseball . . . Tactics" thread, one of the people had this to say about the Send Forced option:

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruceM

Send Forced - I believe this is refering to telling the runner on base, usually 1st but not always, to run on the next pitch regardless. Chances are the manager has the hit & run or run & hit on or he wants the runner to steal 2nd.

If this is the case, then why don't we just choose Steal 2nd or Hit & Run / Run & Hit? I think there must be another explanation. What exactly is Send Forced used for and in what situations?

KBLover · 08-15-2006, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

If this is the case, then why don't we just choose Steal 2nd or Hit & Run / Run & Hit? I think there must be another explanation. What exactly is Send Forced used for and in what situations?

I've wondered this myself.

I look at it as telling the runner to go no matter what. I don't care if you don't have a good jump, didn't like the read you got on the pitcher, or whatever, just GO!

I want to say it lowered by chances of success in stealing, but that might have just been just a bad few games.

I would use it mostly for the high ST players, since they have, theoretically, the best chances of success in the given situation.

1998 Yankees · 08-15-2006, 05:01 PM

Ahhh. You are onto something there. I now recall that sometimes when you say "steal" the response is "sorry, didn't get a good jump." Still seems odd as an option, however. Why the heck would you ever force a runner to run on the very next pitch, regardless, if the hit & run is not on?

KBLover · 08-15-2006, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

Ahhh. You are onto something there. I now recall that sometimes when you say "steal" the response is "sorry, didn't get a good jump." Still seems odd as an option, however. Why the heck would you ever force a runner to run on the very next pitch, regardless, if the hit & run is not on?

Hmm...that's a good question. The only thing I can think of at present is if you're facing a weak hold pitcher and a weak armed catcher. I once had a runner have trouble on a 20 Hold pitcher and a 12 armed catcher, despite his 100 SP/100 ST attributes.

Maybe instead of "hoping for the best" and working your hitter into a hole while the runner "can't get it in gear", you just send him outright on the first pitch and trust that he can make it.

Still doesn't seem to be too frequent a use, though.

I'm going to start using it all the time to make my runners go to see if I can't get some more insight on it/its effects.

1998 Yankees · 08-16-2006, 08:56 AM

You know what I think? Of course you don't, because I haven't said anything yet.

I tossed and turned all night over this question (not really, but I like to be dramatic) and it finally came to me. Please read this, from the guide (24.4.6.3. Game Control Options, page 315):

Offensive Option: Send Forced Description: The runners on base will go, no matter what happens at the plate.

I think "Send Forced" means "Send the Runners" which is what you do when there are men on base, 2 outs, and a 3-2 count. That is, make them start running with the pitch because there is no risk of getting caught off base in that situation (some players, I think, like to gamble and send the runners with less than two outs and on other pitch counts).

I cannot remember if previous OOTP versions assumed this and started the runners automatically in a 2-out, 3-2 count situation, but I believe OOTP 2006, in the never-ending quest for baseball realism, has put the decision "in your hands."

Anyone agree or disagree?

eriqjaffe · 08-16-2006, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

I cannot remember if previous OOTP versions assumed this and started the runners automatically in a 2-out, 3-2 count situation

Yes, it did. At least 6.5 did.

KBLover · 08-16-2006, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

I cannot remember if previous OOTP versions assumed this and started the runners automatically in a 2-out, 3-2 count situation, but I believe OOTP 2006, in the never-ending quest for baseball realism, has put the decision "in your hands."

Anyone agree or disagree?

I have seen OOTP2006 send my runners on 3-2 pitches with two outs. I usually play in AB by AB when I don't want to put a play on and when I do that, the game will make the runners go (or at least it can - if it does it every time I don't know, and if it doesn't do it every time, what makes it decide to do so?)

Also, I don't see how that's still any different than the Run-and-Hit or Hit-and-Run. Aren't they the same thing? Runner goes and if the batter hits the ball (or not), he's still going?

Or does it impact the logic of the runners after the play is resolved. For example, would "Send Forced" cause the runners to just keep going after a pop up on the infield is caught instead of trying to get back to their original bases?

Elendil · 08-16-2006, 10:59 AM

In Send Forced, the hitter does not swing - that's the difference from the Run & Hit and Hit & Run options. As KBLover mentioned, you do this if you want to try to steal even when you do not have a good lead (similar to using the secondary steal rating in Strat-o-matic if you've ever played that game).

Curtis · 09-28-2006, 05:24 PM

Shows what a dummy I am! I thought 'send forced' meant only runners who were potential victims of force plays would run.

08-16-2006, 10:59 AM	#8
Elendil Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the dynasty forum Posts: 2,318	In Send Forced, the hitter does not swing - that's the difference from the Run & Hit and Hit & Run options. As KBLover mentioned, you do this if you want to try to steal even when you do not have a good lead (similar to using the secondary steal rating in Strat-o-matic if you've ever played that game). __________________ Heaven is kicking back with a double Talisker and a churchwarden stuffed with latakia.

08-15-2006, 05:01 PM	#3
1998 Yankees Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Yankee Stadium, back in 1998. Posts: 8,645	Ahhh. You are onto something there. I now recall that sometimes when you say "steal" the response is "sorry, didn't get a good jump." Still seems odd as an option, however. Why the heck would you ever force a runner to run on the very next pitch, regardless, if the hit & run is not on?

08-16-2006, 08:56 AM	#5
1998 Yankees Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Yankee Stadium, back in 1998. Posts: 8,645	You know what I think? Of course you don't, because I haven't said anything yet. I tossed and turned all night over this question (not really, but I like to be dramatic) and it finally came to me. Please read this, from the guide (24.4.6.3. Game Control Options, page 315): Offensive Option: Send Forced Description: The runners on base will go, no matter what happens at the plate. I think "Send Forced" means "Send the Runners" which is what you do when there are men on base, 2 outs, and a 3-2 count. That is, make them start running with the pitch because there is no risk of getting caught off base in that situation (some players, I think, like to gamble and send the runners with less than two outs and on other pitch counts). I cannot remember if previous OOTP versions assumed this and started the runners automatically in a 2-out, 3-2 count situation, but I believe OOTP 2006, in the never-ending quest for baseball realism, has put the decision "in your hands." Anyone agree or disagree?

09-28-2006, 05:24 PM	#9
Curtis Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Watertown, New York Posts: 4,567	Shows what a dummy I am! I thought 'send forced' meant only runners who were potential victims of force plays would run.