I've about had enough

200years2late · 12-15-2018, 08:15 PM

Driving me crazy - every time I have a steal or a hit and run or run and hit or whatever on - the AI is pitching out or otherwise seemingly well aware of what I am doing.
It's BS. If I don't have a play on, the AI of course just pitches and gets a quick DP. It's enough. I'm done with this.

Ty Cobb · 12-15-2018, 08:58 PM

B'bye...

Sorry you feel this way. I would think the friendly and open established user community having a hugely different view might influence you...but, you're entitled to your opinion.

Try Tap Sports Baseball instead. Get ready to spend 20x the money for 1/10 the reward. You'll be back.

BirdWatcher · 12-15-2018, 09:10 PM

Yup, I hear your frustration. And it certainly feels that way sometimes. Then you get in those stretches where your team can do no wrong. Those just feel normal though, because, of course, my team is good. We notice the stuff that goes wrong far more than the stuff that goes right. I try to think about it this way sometimes- what if the AI manager I am managing against was a human manager? How many times would they feel like things were stacked in my favor? Probably about as many times as I feel they are stacked against me.

I can't know how long you've been playing OOTP. Maybe for years and years. But it looks like you've been here for just a few months.
I would suggest that if you don't want to give up and move on (and, hey, that's up to you, totally your option) that you breathe deep and try to tell yourself that, just like in real life, things tend to average out over time. And remember, it's just a game. Though, in my experience, a damn good one.

markprior22 · 12-15-2018, 09:22 PM

I don't know what mode you play but if it's the one click play result, you might try manually taking a pitch or 2. If you get a 1-0 or 2-0 count, you'll have a much better chance of successfully running a play without a pitchout. Even if count is 1-1, there aren't nearly as many pitchouts as 0-0.

Harry Hibbs · 12-15-2018, 10:35 PM

So, the AI definitely reacts if you try to steal and the runner has to go back on one pitch, often by throwing over before the next pitch. Seems fairly realistic to me. I've had a fair degree of success with stealing, especially on pitchers who have lower "hold runners" ratings 50 or less. Trying to steal on a pitcher with a high rating is ill-advised. Try to be unpredictable with your steal attempts but never steal with runners that have low steal ratings.

Sweed · 12-16-2018, 01:47 AM

1. Yeah, in one pitch mode you need to sometimes "work the count" and take a pitch and hope the P either pitches out or throws a ball. Keep in mind, like real life, on occasion the AI will still pitch out on a 1-0 count, just not often. Even with a 0-1 count you can still take another as the AI is more likely to pitch out in this count, like real life.

2. You also have the option, with runners on base, of turning on "full pitch" mode, or whatever it's called, and work the count that way. I've thought about doing this from time to time but haven't as I've found #1 above to be effective enough for me.

jdw31158 · 12-16-2018, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ty Cobb

B'bye...

Sorry you feel this way. I would think the friendly and open established user community having a hugely different view might influence you...but, you're entitled to your opinion.

Try Tap Sports Baseball instead. Get ready to spend 20x the money for 1/10 the reward. You'll be back.

Friendly and open, huh? You may want to try that instead of being so snarky to somebody that is just venting. Obviously, since he just joined, he's probably fairly new to the game. Try helping and being a little understanding instead of being

Cactusguy21 · 12-19-2018, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ty Cobb

B'bye...

Sorry you feel this way. I would think the friendly and open established user community having a hugely different view might influence you...but, you're entitled to your opinion.

Try Tap Sports Baseball instead. Get ready to spend 20x the money for 1/10 the reward. You'll be back.

This is not exactly friendly there mate...

joefromchicago · 12-20-2018, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 200years2late

Driving me crazy - every time I have a steal or a hit and run or run and hit or whatever on - the AI is pitching out or otherwise seemingly well aware of what I am doing.

No doubt that's frustrating, but keep in mind that a lot of baseball strategy is fairly predictable. Fast runner on first base and a 2-0 count on the batter? Good chance that the runner will attempt to steal second. Runner on first, less than two outs, and the pitcher is up to bat? Draw the corners in, because the batter will likely bunt. Any intelligent fan can guess, with reasonable accuracy, what decisions a manager will make in any given situation.

The AI is smart enough to know the same basic baseball strategies that you know. If it didn't, it wouldn't be a very good AI. So if you're running on a 1-2 count, don't be surprised if the AI calls for a pitchout. That's what it's supposed to do.

BirdWatcher · 12-20-2018, 10:17 AM

I would also add that much of this is influenced by the talents of your team and of your opponents.
Admittedly, I don't manage my team during game play but rather let the AI do so based upon my strategy settings (with the exception of occasionally taking over to make pitching changes), but I do watch every single game my team plays. And what I've seen is that with some exceptional base-stealers on my team they often beat the pitch-out. There are, of course, always several factors happening at once. Perhaps the runner got a great jump, the catcher doesn't have a strong arm, etc. But ultimately talent creates success.
Same concept with your team hitting into double plays. This may have something to do with your team having batters who are more prone to hitting into double plays, or having a few players like that hitting in spots in the lineup where that is a real issue (certainly don't want a high dp guy hitting in the second spot in the lineup, for instance.)

Essential point being: while much of this can just be small sample size or a need for strategy adjustment on your part, if these trends continue longer and in spite of your adjustments, you might want to look closer at the players ratings and how that affects your use of them as well. Maybe your team is getting outplayed because they just aren't as good as you think they should be.

NoOne · 12-20-2018, 07:09 PM

more than context matters too.

i'm fairly sure it picks up on certain behaviour. e.g. if you repeatedly employ a particular strategy, it may notice this sort of thing and employ a certain counter-strategy even used out of normal context but with opportunity all the same. it doesn't remember between games, so you can do the same tricks each game.

a better stealer obviously gets a pitch out more often than a weak stealer, but if you steal every chance you get religously, you should expect a pitch out even with a lesser talent. expectations need to be taken advantage of and 'normal' behaviour needs to be limited, if you want to maximize stealing.

like someone said above, take a pitch can help. not stealing when expected helps..e.g. you are hoping for a pitch out, or relative counter-strategy, the AI does it, then try a steal. even that, you can't repeat without changing it up now and then. they'll throw 2 pitchouts the next time, if the opportunity arises, or you should expect them to be more likely to do so -- at least with an elite talent that you often steal with.

if it were easy, you could rack up 4-5 stolen bases anytime you get the singles/doubles to allow for it simply by choosing 'steal a base' with no other critical thinking involved.

one thing you should check is the league average for attempts and %. are they ~normal? what's normal? use recen history, but be forgiving. sb attempts are volatile year to year or even decade to decade of seemingly consistent figures. if you want to see a 100+ sb with the elitely rated players i'd suggest aiming for ~4500sb @ 70-72% or so... you could probably get away with a few hundred less attempts and still see a 100+ sb guy.

i think i've seen 110's, maybe a bit higher with AI-controlled. after 100some years i think i saw a 1000+ career sb guy too, so ricky henderson-like player is possible. anyway, if you look at sb attempts and % are WAY below this, you can expect a much more difficult time stealing. even with a 100/100 speed/ability rating.

curt · 12-21-2018, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 200years2late

Driving me crazy - every time I have a steal or a hit and run or run and hit or whatever on - the AI is pitching out or otherwise seemingly well aware of what I am doing.
It's BS. If I don't have a play on, the AI of course just pitches and gets a quick DP. It's enough. I'm done with this.

I'm playing PBP. I never steal on an 0 and 1 count, I'll get a pitchout. Steal on a 2 and 1, 1 and 0.The AI will not pitchout on those counts. I also run and hit a lot.My first baseman has led the league in SB's for 2 years in a row.

Markus Heinsohn · 12-22-2018, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 200years2late

Driving me crazy - every time I have a steal or a hit and run or run and hit or whatever on - the AI is pitching out or otherwise seemingly well aware of what I am doing.
It's BS. If I don't have a play on, the AI of course just pitches and gets a quick DP. It's enough. I'm done with this.

It can be frustrating if things do not work out the way that you planned, for sure. But trust me, the AI does not cheat. But if you always employ a certain strategy (eg stealing with a particular player) the AI notices this and will counter-act, just like a human manager would do

12-15-2018, 08:58 PM	#2
Ty Cobb Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Grayling, MI Posts: 3,947 Blog Entries: 66	B'bye... Sorry you feel this way. I would think the friendly and open established user community having a hugely different view might influence you...but, you're entitled to your opinion. Try Tap Sports Baseball instead. Get ready to spend 20x the money for 1/10 the reward. You'll be back. __________________ “What’s the most you ever lost on a coin toss?” “Everyone is an atheist until Templars begin marching in the rain.” Absinthe makes the heart grow fonder. It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.—Thomas Sowell "Alinsky works for me now."

12-20-2018, 07:09 PM	#11
NoOne Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,167	more than context matters too. i'm fairly sure it picks up on certain behaviour. e.g. if you repeatedly employ a particular strategy, it may notice this sort of thing and employ a certain counter-strategy even used out of normal context but with opportunity all the same. it doesn't remember between games, so you can do the same tricks each game. a better stealer obviously gets a pitch out more often than a weak stealer, but if you steal every chance you get religously, you should expect a pitch out even with a lesser talent. expectations need to be taken advantage of and 'normal' behaviour needs to be limited, if you want to maximize stealing. like someone said above, take a pitch can help. not stealing when expected helps..e.g. you are hoping for a pitch out, or relative counter-strategy, the AI does it, then try a steal. even that, you can't repeat without changing it up now and then. they'll throw 2 pitchouts the next time, if the opportunity arises, or you should expect them to be more likely to do so -- at least with an elite talent that you often steal with. if it were easy, you could rack up 4-5 stolen bases anytime you get the singles/doubles to allow for it simply by choosing 'steal a base' with no other critical thinking involved. one thing you should check is the league average for attempts and %. are they ~normal? what's normal? use recen history, but be forgiving. sb attempts are volatile year to year or even decade to decade of seemingly consistent figures. if you want to see a 100+ sb with the elitely rated players i'd suggest aiming for ~4500sb @ 70-72% or so... you could probably get away with a few hundred less attempts and still see a 100+ sb guy. i think i've seen 110's, maybe a bit higher with AI-controlled. after 100some years i think i saw a 1000+ career sb guy too, so ricky henderson-like player is possible. anyway, if you look at sb attempts and % are WAY below this, you can expect a much more difficult time stealing. even with a 100/100 speed/ability rating. Last edited by NoOne; 12-20-2018 at 07:32 PM.

12-15-2018, 08:15 PM	#1
200years2late Bat Boy Join Date: Sep 2018 Posts: 12	I've about had enough Driving me crazy - every time I have a steal or a hit and run or run and hit or whatever on - the AI is pitching out or otherwise seemingly well aware of what I am doing. It's BS. If I don't have a play on, the AI of course just pitches and gets a quick DP. It's enough. I'm done with this.

12-15-2018, 09:10 PM	#3
BirdWatcher Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 4,262	Yup, I hear your frustration. And it certainly feels that way sometimes. Then you get in those stretches where your team can do no wrong. Those just feel normal though, because, of course, my team is good. We notice the stuff that goes wrong far more than the stuff that goes right. I try to think about it this way sometimes- what if the AI manager I am managing against was a human manager? How many times would they feel like things were stacked in my favor? Probably about as many times as I feel they are stacked against me. I can't know how long you've been playing OOTP. Maybe for years and years. But it looks like you've been here for just a few months. I would suggest that if you don't want to give up and move on (and, hey, that's up to you, totally your option) that you breathe deep and try to tell yourself that, just like in real life, things tend to average out over time. And remember, it's just a game. Though, in my experience, a damn good one.

12-15-2018, 09:22 PM	#4
markprior22 All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: springfield, illinois Posts: 1,225 Blog Entries: 2	I don't know what mode you play but if it's the one click play result, you might try manually taking a pitch or 2. If you get a 1-0 or 2-0 count, you'll have a much better chance of successfully running a play without a pitchout. Even if count is 1-1, there aren't nearly as many pitchouts as 0-0.

12-15-2018, 10:35 PM	#5
Harry Hibbs Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: San Jose Posts: 199	So, the AI definitely reacts if you try to steal and the runner has to go back on one pitch, often by throwing over before the next pitch. Seems fairly realistic to me. I've had a fair degree of success with stealing, especially on pitchers who have lower "hold runners" ratings 50 or less. Trying to steal on a pitcher with a high rating is ill-advised. Try to be unpredictable with your steal attempts but never steal with runners that have low steal ratings.

12-16-2018, 01:47 AM	#6
Sweed Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 6,100 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	1. Yeah, in one pitch mode you need to sometimes "work the count" and take a pitch and hope the P either pitches out or throws a ball. Keep in mind, like real life, on occasion the AI will still pitch out on a 1-0 count, just not often. Even with a 0-1 count you can still take another as the AI is more likely to pitch out in this count, like real life. 2. You also have the option, with runners on base, of turning on "full pitch" mode, or whatever it's called, and work the count that way. I've thought about doing this from time to time but haven't as I've found #1 above to be effective enough for me.

12-20-2018, 10:17 AM	#10
BirdWatcher Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 4,262	I would also add that much of this is influenced by the talents of your team and of your opponents. Admittedly, I don't manage my team during game play but rather let the AI do so based upon my strategy settings (with the exception of occasionally taking over to make pitching changes), but I do watch every single game my team plays. And what I've seen is that with some exceptional base-stealers on my team they often beat the pitch-out. There are, of course, always several factors happening at once. Perhaps the runner got a great jump, the catcher doesn't have a strong arm, etc. But ultimately talent creates success. Same concept with your team hitting into double plays. This may have something to do with your team having batters who are more prone to hitting into double plays, or having a few players like that hitting in spots in the lineup where that is a real issue (certainly don't want a high dp guy hitting in the second spot in the lineup, for instance.) Essential point being: while much of this can just be small sample size or a need for strategy adjustment on your part, if these trends continue longer and in spite of your adjustments, you might want to look closer at the players ratings and how that affects your use of them as well. Maybe your team is getting outplayed because they just aren't as good as you think they should be.