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Old 06-02-2007, 06:20 PM   #1
Jim_Kidd
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Lightweights who skipped the Jr. Welterweight Divsion

Recently, I was thinking about rating fighters who jumped from Lightweight to Welterweight, skipping the stop-over in the Jr. Welterweight division. Then, there are others who were just there for a fight or two.

It makes you wonder what a Roberto Duran could have accomplished as a Jr. Welterweight. Or Shane Mosely. Would they have been more like their Lightweight versions... or their Welterweight versions? My guess is Lightweight.

Pernell Whitaker is another one. He only had a few fights at Jr. Welterweight, the first being the one in which he won a piece of the title.

There's a lot of great "All-Time" match-ups in that division with guys like Kostya Tszyu, Aaron Pryor, Tony Canzoneri and others....
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Old 06-02-2007, 10:54 PM   #2
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Good question Jim. Shane is my IBO Jr. Welter champ & I obtained his rating by averaging his LW & WW ratings - he's a 10 @ 140 as a result.
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Old 06-02-2007, 10:58 PM   #3
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I just did the same thing. Then, I matched him against Arturo Gatti who he chopped down in the 9th for the WBC, WBA & IBF titles while Cory Spinks and Zab Judah fought to a draw.

Finally, I came back online and read this post.

I guess our respective universes are on a similar wavelength!
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Old 06-30-2013, 12:34 AM   #4
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Averaged out!

I basically did the same thing, I averaged out Durans, & he dominates my JWW division.

Also De La Hoya, Pacquiao, Mayweather, Mosley, Arguello, Benitez & Whitaker, & Barney Ross also had no JWW rating that I could find.

I keep 2 Excel lists of my JWW Rankings, 1 is for the overall rankings of everyone I put in the division & then I keep one just for the guys that fought a minimum of 10 bouts in the division, it makes a huge difference in your final top 10.

Here are my top 17 right at this time, most have fought at least 10 or more bouts & most have fought everyone else in the list, I have not finished yet as I have many more top JWW still to take their turn & shot at my final top 20, but at this point, you can see the top 2 spots are taken by Duran who never had a JWW fight & Benitez only had 7 & Mayweather 4 & the occupy 3 of my top 6 spots, but when I remove them for the guys that actually fought 10 or more at JWW, then you see how it changes, I still think the game gives Pryor too much credit for beating & Cheating an aging Arguello on his 4th move up in weight, & he won the title from an aging & past his prime Cervantes, & was put down by Cervantes, D. Johnson & Kameda, so he could be put down, but yet, Johnson may have been the hardest puncher he ever fought outside Arguello who did not carry his full power to JWW with him, Pryor's camp made sure they avoided anyone with power, I'm from Cinci, & I know for fact from the direct sources they did so, because they knew Pryor could be put down, that's why they ran him as fast as they could out of the LW division without ever fighting a single bout there, because at the time, the LW division was Loaded, they went to a nearly empty JWW division, so really I don't think Pryor did a lot, Panama Lewis helped him Cheat Arguello at the end of his great Career, he beat an old Cervantes, then what, he avoided the #1 contender in his own division in Mamby and fought the #4 in Johnson, Mamby had no power, but I think would have boxed Pryor in a very close fight, Cervantes in his Prime I think takes him & Benitez wins a decision, Duran easily beats him, Chavez takes him & Tszyu Ko's him.
& Arguello beats him if Lewis is not in his corner to cheat him, anyway, here is my top 17, & as I said, I still have many top JWW's still to go, like Locche & Gatti, & Arcari & others.

1. Roberto Duran
2. Wilfred Benitez
3. Aaron Pryor
4. Antonio Cervantes
5. Kostya Tszyu
6. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
7. Pernell Whitaker
8. Barney Ross
9. Duilio Loi
10. Julio Cesar Chavez
Oscar De La Hoya
Tony Canzoneri
Manny Pacquiao
Packey McFarland
Willie Joyce
Ricky Hatton
Saoul Mamby
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Old 01-08-2017, 09:42 PM   #5
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Aaron Pryor

I have since downrated Pryor,being from Cincinnati, and i only missed 1 Pro fight in person, and watched around 40% of his Amateur fights, also working out at his gym in town, after he moved to the new one downtown, I reviewed many of his fights and his whole career again, and concluded he was too highly rated, he fought Cervantes at the end, and he still put Pryor down once in the fight, he fought a 31 yr. old Arguello that clearly not at his best, which was at JLW, and he had to cheat with drugs from lewis to beat him, it's pretty evident now, to people in this town, that he was on PCP & Amphetamines to help him in the fight, both have their own pluses that would do that, he was put down 8x times in his career, all by Bums so he was susceptable to being put down, a suspect chin, so his chin rating should be lowered, he hit hard with both hands, but I don't consider him having 1 PUNCH KO power, so his power rating a bit too high, 30+ Knockouts all against bums, he had terrible balance, almost Zero ring generalship, as he was dumber than dirt, he was open to be hit, as evident by what Arguello, Kameda, Young, Johnson and others did to him, proving for me, what Leonard, Duran, Benitez and the rest of the best would have done with him, he still makes my top 10 at JWW all time, but not as highly rated and ranked as before.
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