New Modern League With a Twist - 3rd Post

[Claybor]

Email sent.

[Thisiswherbert]

Originally Posted by mjrak

Hey,

I didn't receive your email. Can you resend?

Mike

Realized I sent this to the wrong email address -- just sent again. Thanks!

[spider_monkey_b]

Originally Posted by mjrak

Just to clarify a few things here:

1) The expansion teams have first dibs on a few "Legends" since they don't really have a full history like other teams. So the Dbacks have first rights to Randy Johnson, Curt Schilling, Luis Gonzalez, Matt Williams, Tampa has first dibs on Wade Boggs, Jose Canseco, Fred McGriff etc.

As for the Legends, of the names you guys are mentioned here (Minus a couple from above) we are all talking about 5 star guys mostly. No one is going to be rated 6-9-6. Also, I never said softened, I said smoothed. But all Legends will be just that...Legends. Don't expect any of them (unless you make a poor choice) to not be your best player.

Lastly, the reason we chose to go post-integration is because there are a huge number of guys like Ruth, Cobb etc. who's career numbers are so far superior to anything else in the history of the game that they are just freaks. We know we are inflating the talent drums, but we didn't want to inflate them with the likes of them. It also give the Yanks and Tigers, Cards, BoSox, WSox etc. an even larger advantage over the younger teams then they already have.

Hope that answers a few questions. With the Legends, best method is to look at career numbers+peak season+hardware like MVP's or Cy Youngs. If they are heavy in those areas then they are going to be studs. But if you choose someone who's career numbers don't shine but has greate peak season(s) (Brady Anderson perhaps) then you might be disappointed with how he turns out.

Mike

Thanks for clarifying commish. But, just to make sure I understand this 100% let's look at the example of SP Hal Newhouser.

When I import him, it shows something like 12/18/10 ratings, and that's importing him during his MVP seasons.

He is a 7x All Star, 2x AL MVP, 2x Pitcher of the Year, 207 wins, 1796 K's.

Now, I'm not asking you to tell me exact ratings, but to clarify for myself and the rest of the guys...your post above means that someone like Newhouser, who has mediocre ratings upon import, will be manually adjusted so those ratings better reflect him to be studly....along the lines of 18's across the board (give or take a bit).

Is that the correct understanding?

I had originally believed you were going to be primarily using in-game ratings as the basis for these guys.

[spider_monkey_b]

One other semi-concern I have is that hopefully legends are on par with the best current Major Leaguers.

I'd much prefer not to see a leaderboard filled with only legends because they are given ungodly ratings. Rather make the pitchers akin to the top 10-20 currently in the league and likewise for batters. I'd like to be able to draft fictional rookies with shots at personal records and putting up career numbers on par with the legends.

Also, I'm assuming when legends are added to the rookie draft for future seasons they will be added as young raw players with high ceilings so that they may bust or turn out great?

Thanks commish!

[mjrak]

Originally Posted by spider_monkey_b

One other semi-concern I have is that hopefully legends are on par with the best current Major Leaguers.

I'd much prefer not to see a leaderboard filled with only legends because they are given ungodly ratings. Rather make the pitchers akin to the top 10-20 currently in the league and likewise for batters. I'd like to be able to draft fictional rookies with shots at personal records and putting up career numbers on par with the legends.

Also, I'm assuming when legends are added to the rookie draft for future seasons they will be added as young raw players with high ceilings so that they may bust or turn out great?

Thanks commish!

Hey,

Rookies will be added as 20-year olds, so not at full potential, but with high ceiling. They will replace the top 1 or 2 rookies that the game creates so as not to over-inflate the draft pools.

As for the ratings, I won't say 18's across the board, because he might not have had 18 control etc. But he will be a 4.5 or 5 star at minimum. All Legends will be adjusted for era so that we won't have a leaderboard every single season of just Legends.

But say for example if you bring in Newhouser, and he is the best pitcher added (Koufax and Carleton and Clemens might argue) but he would be either on par with the league's best arm, Halladay or Verlander or whoever, or only marginally better then they.

The idea isn't to have the Legends just completely dominate the league, which is why we chose post-integration, cause a guy like Cy Young or Ty Cobb or Babe Ruth, even adjusted for era would be head and shoulders better then anyone else.

Hope this clarifies.

[mjrak]

Updated post with teams left available, only 11 teams left.

Cleveland
Colorado
Kansas City (No one wants George Brett????)
LA Angels
Miami
Milwaukee (No one wants Robin Yount or Paul Molitor???)
Minnesota
Oakland
San Diego
Seattle (No one wants a 25 year old Griffey???)
Tampa Bay

[mjrak]

Updated. Only 9 teams left available:

Cincinnati (No one wants to play with Frank Robinson, Johnny Bench, Tom Seaver or Pete Rose?)
Cleveland (No one wants Gaylord Perry, Bob Feller, Albert Belle, Kenny Lofton, Eddie Murray, Bob Lemon or Bert Byleven???)
Colorado (No one wants to re-live the Larry Walker, Andrea Galarraga, Dante Bichette years?)
Kansas City (No one wants to see George Brett try for .400 again? How about David Cone, Bret Saberhagen, Willie Wilson...or are you a Bo Jackson fan?)
Miami (Someone must want to see Gary Sheffield in that line-up, or Kevin Brown taking the hill again?)
Minnesota (Kirby Puckett, Paul Molitor, Hermon Killbrew, Rod Carew, Frank Viola, Bert Byleven, Jim Kaat and Tony Oliva are just a few of the greats you could bring back to life.)
Philadelphia (How can you not want to add Mike Schmidt to that lineup? Steve Carlton perhaps?)
San Diego (How can you not want to see that sweet swing of Tony Gwynn again? Maybe you want to see the 5 tool Robbie Alomar? Other notables: Fred McGriff, Dave Winfield, Ozzie Smith, Rollie Fingers, Steve Gervey or Goose Gossage.)
Tampa Bay (Wade Boggs has to look good in that #2 hole. If not, perhaps you want a long term solution at 1B in Fred McGriff? Righty power in Jose Canseco?)

[RomanCaesar]

Originally Posted by spider_monkey_b

Thanks for clarifying commish. But, just to make sure I understand this 100% let's look at the example of SP Hal Newhouser.

When I import him, it shows something like 12/18/10 ratings, and that's importing him during his MVP seasons.

He is a 7x All Star, 2x AL MVP, 2x Pitcher of the Year, 207 wins, 1796 K's.

Now, I'm not asking you to tell me exact ratings, but to clarify for myself and the rest of the guys...your post above means that someone like Newhouser, who has mediocre ratings upon import, will be manually adjusted so those ratings better reflect him to be studly....along the lines of 18's across the board (give or take a bit).

Is that the correct understanding?

I had originally believed you were going to be primarily using in-game ratings as the basis for these guys.

I am helping Mike create the players. I'll try to explain on Newhouser and others. For the most part, the guys are at slightly above career number for ratings but we are trying to adjust for era. Newhouser is one of the hardest examples because of when he played. Just about everyone we expect to be chosen will have played into the mid to later 1960s or onward and frankly its easier to compare Willie Mays and Junior Griffey to Matt Kemp than Newhouser to say Zach Greinke. Just less adjustments needs to figure out.

When you imported Newhouser your getting his stats pulled into the current world with zero era adjustment. What i am doing with his ratings is compared them to his eras peers and trying to adjust that to the current league.

For example in his time he lead the league in K/9's four times and nine times was in the top ten. Where if you just used straight importing he is merely average in K's. The reasoning is different eras play differently. K/9 were lower because of more innings pitched (which means you saved some on velocity and pitching to contact), more emphasis on not striking out, etc.

In short, what i am trying to do is compare apples to apples- IE what Newhouser might do in today's MLB statwise, not just plug in what he did in the 1940s and throw those numbers into a 2012 sim. Newhouser would very well strikeout more today because the game is different than his era. In his day he was a strikeout guy, and should be in this league (ignoring any debate on guys being bigger, more athletic, etc today). If i had to guess, probably a 16 or maybe 17 on stuff.

A more common and clear example is stamina. If you just plug in straight imports. 1970s and before especially would have crazy stamina compared to today but its not like anyone in the current MLB would let Koufax pitch 350 innings. No one has hit 300 even since 1980. So why base his stamina off of it. Again, i am trying to make it apples to apples comparisons. So i see how often he lead (or was close) his league in innings pitched to give him a modern stamina similar to say Halladay instead of just plugging in the 350 innings or whatever the import says. Most these guys are studs and tend to be 18-20 for stamina. We are using a 1-20 scale in this league.

In most cases, ratings will look like you expect they would.
Brett is a .310, 40 doubles, 20 homer guy
Aaron is a .310, 40 homers type of guy

Bonds was unique in that his career really was two distant parts. He is a hybrid of his speed years and power years. .304, 40 homers but great D and speed.

Here are examples of players in the league- i have made 12 hitters so far.
Contact leaders:
Boggs 19 Historical
Gwynn 19 Historical
M Cabrera 18
Carew 18 Historical
Braun 17
Hamilton 17
Kemp 17
Mauer 17

Aaron, Mays, F Robinson, G Brett, Bonds, Griffey, R Henderson, E Mathews, F Thomas who are made are not on that list. Thomas at 16 is the next highest with eight regular current MLB players. Aaron, Brett, Mays are at 15 with most the other .300 type hitters you find in real life. No one gets a big spike just for being a historical. Of the 12 players i mentioned- Only Aaron, Mays, Bonds are five star players right now. I assume Mantle, Ted Williams and others would join that five star list if requested. In short, your historical isn't a guaranteed top 30 player just because he was a historical.


What i would suggest for those joining or thinking of it. Pick guys you like instead of worrying if he is slightly better than someone else. Say you like Barry Larkin but think Frank Robinson might be rated higher on the Reds. Don't stress trying to figure out if someone might be a 1/2 star better. Its not a given they'll play better anyway and its more important you enjoy the league.

[spider_monkey_b]

Thanks a lot for the clarification Roman. That helps a lot!

And just for the record, I haven't chosen Newhouser yet. I'm still debating if I want to go pitching or hitting. Al Kaline seems like he'd be pretty awesome too with Miggy and Fielder.

[mjrak]

Updated...we have 7 teams left available.

Cleveland (No one wants Gaylord Perry, Bob Feller, Albert Belle, Kenny Lofton, Eddie Murray, Bob Lemon or Bert Byleven???)
Colorado (No one wants to re-live the Larry Walker, Andrea Galarraga, Dante Bichette years?)
Kansas City (No one wants to see George Brett try for .400 again? How about David Cone, Bret Saberhagen, Willie Wilson...or are you a Bo Jackson fan?)
Miami (Someone must want to see Gary Sheffield in that line-up, or Kevin Brown taking the hill again?)
Minnesota (Kirby Puckett, Paul Molitor, Hermon Killbrew, Rod Carew, Frank Viola, Bert Byleven, Jim Kaat and Tony Oliva are just a few of the greats you could bring back to life.)
Philadelphia (How can you not want to add Mike Schmidt to that lineup? Steve Carlton perhaps?)
San Diego (How can you not want to see that sweet swing of Tony Gwynn again? Maybe you want to see the 5 tool Robbie Alomar? Other notables: Fred McGriff, Dave Winfield, Ozzie Smith, Rollie Fingers, Steve Gervey or Goose Gossage.)

[mjrak]

Hey Guys,

Still 7 teams left, email me or add me to AIM if you're interested in joining.

Mike

[mjrak]

Just 6 teams left, some real interesting choices left, email me if you're interested in joining.

Cleveland (No one wants Gaylord Perry, Bob Feller, Albert Belle, Kenny Lofton, Eddie Murray, Bob Lemon or Bert Byleven???)
Colorado (No one wants to re-live the Larry Walker, Andrea Galarraga, Dante Bichette years?)
Kansas City (No one wants to see George Brett try for .400 again? How about David Cone, Bret Saberhagen, Willie Wilson...or are you a Bo Jackson fan?)
Miami (Someone must want to see Gary Sheffield in that line-up, or Kevin Brown taking the hill again?)
Minnesota (Kirby Puckett, Paul Molitor, Hermon Killbrew, Rod Carew, Frank Viola, Bert Byleven, Jim Kaat and Tony Oliva are just a few of the greats you could bring back to life.)
San Diego (How can you not want to see that sweet swing of Tony Gwynn again? Maybe you want to see the 5 tool Robbie Alomar? Other notables: Fred McGriff, Dave Winfield, Ozzie Smith, Rollie Fingers, Steve Gervey or Goose Gossage.)

[trianglemoon]

Will one legend be added each year?

Is there still a draft?

Is it possible a newly created "legend" might have to sit in the minors for a while until their stats start to max out? (I haven't played OOTP in a few versions, so I'm not sure what changes might have occurred to player development.)

Can legends get injured?

Finally, can Legends be traded?

I really like the concept. It sounds like you're taking decent steps to "balance" the legends, making them "a step above" but not overly dominant. I think it was in Bull Durham where Kevin Costner's character points out the difference between the majors and the minors is 1 hit a week. That roughly holds true for a good player and a legend.

Reporter: Mr. Cobb, how well would you do if you played the game today?
Ty Cobb: Oh, I'd hit .310, or .315.
Reporter: But Mr. Cobb, you hit over .400 three times in your career. Why would you only bat .300 today?
Ty Cobb: Well, you have to remember. I'm 72 years old now.


Thanks,
Chad S

[RomanCaesar]

Originally Posted by trianglemoon

Will one legend be added each year?

Is there still a draft?

Is it possible a newly created "legend" might have to sit in the minors for a while until their stats start to max out? (I haven't played OOTP in a few versions, so I'm not sure what changes might have occurred to player development.)

Can legends get injured?

Finally, can Legends be traded?

I really like the concept. It sounds like you're taking decent steps to "balance" the legends, making them "a step above" but not overly dominant. I think it was in Bull Durham where Kevin Costner's character points out the difference between the majors and the minors is 1 hit a week. That roughly holds true for a good player and a legend.

Reporter: Mr. Cobb, how well would you do if you played the game today?
Ty Cobb: Oh, I'd hit .310, or .315.
Reporter: But Mr. Cobb, you hit over .400 three times in your career. Why would you only bat .300 today?
Ty Cobb: Well, you have to remember. I'm 72 years old now.


Thanks,
Chad S

I can answer these for Mike.

Q- Will one legend be added each year?

A- One or Two legends. They'll be in the draft and 20 years old. They'll not be developed.



Q- Is there still a draft?

A- Yes, Same as a regular draft but the 1-2 legends added. They'll replace 1-2 CPU created draftees. The first year will have the real 2012 draftees and either 1 or 2 legends.


Q- Is it possible a newly created "legend" might have to sit in the minors for a while until their stats start to max out? (I haven't played OOTP in a few versions, so I'm not sure what changes might have occurred to player development.)

A- The legends created when you start the league are 25 years old, so they are developed. The drafted legends will be 20 years old and will need development.


Q- Can legends get injured?

A- Yes.



Q- can Legends be traded?

A- In year 3, which is the last year of the initial contract they can be.

[Claybor]

Looking forward to getting things started. The only concern I have is the incentive system, which from my experiences have unbalanced leagues in favor of GM's that have a lot of time on their hands. Hopefully not in this case, we shall see.

[bigfatcat]

Originally Posted by Claybor

Looking forward to getting things started. The only concern I have is the incentive system, which from my experiences have unbalanced leagues in favor of GM's that have a lot of time on their hands. Hopefully not in this case, we shall see.

i had joined the league before i was aware of the incentive program. i've been playing since version 5.0...about 10+ years? my #1 rule has always been "leagues with incentive programs, especially ones that focus mainly on writing (usually insipid...sorry, but true) articles are fine, but not for me". i like the game played in the game, not on the forum. i DO NOT like seeing other teams benefit noticably because the GM's have the time and desire to write articles.

when i found the incentive program, i e-mailed Mike (Commish) to tell him i don't play in incentive leagues, and would have to give up my team. he was nice enough to contact me, and he was able to convince me that the incentive program, as written, would not make a team appreciably better through the writing of articles. if i could be convinced enough to remain in the league, then anyone could also be convinced likewise.

plus...Mike is a great, great guy...and i think it will be a great league, either because of or in spite of the incentive program, depending on your point of view.
i'm really happy that Mike took the time to explain things to me, because i really wanted to be in the league. now, i'm stuck, because Mike is such a cool, impressive person, i don't think i could ever 'bail' on a league that he is running.

M.F.
Legends Arizona Diamondbacks

[Claybor]

I wasn't planning on going anywhere as this looks like a very good league, but I do appreciate the reply. Can't wait to see everyone on the field.

[mjrak]

Cleveland (No one wants Gaylord Perry, Bob Feller, Albert Belle, Kenny Lofton, Eddie Murray, Bob Lemon or Bert Byleven???)
Colorado (No one wants to re-live the Larry Walker, Andrea Galarraga, Dante Bichette years?)
Miami (Someone must want to see Gary Sheffield in that line-up, or Kevin Brown taking the hill again?)
Minnesota (Kirby Puckett, Paul Molitor, Hermon Killbrew, Rod Carew, Frank Viola, Bert Byleven, Jim Kaat and Tony Oliva are just a few of the greats you could bring back to life.)

We are so very close guys, just 4 teams left. If you're interested in joining reach out to me before it's too late!!

Mike

[mjrak]

Looking for possibly 3 GMs now guys. Let me know if you're interested.

[mjrak]

3 Teams Left now:

Cleveland (No one wants Gaylord Perry, Bob Feller, Albert Belle, Kenny Lofton, Eddie Murray, Bob Lemon or Bert Byleven???)
Colorado (No one wants to re-live the Larry Walker, Andrea Galarraga, Dante Bichette years?)
Miami (Someone must want to see Gary Sheffield in that line-up, or Kevin Brown taking the hill again?)