changing positions

[mrbadguy]

ive never actually tried this

I'm in 2033 and the AL has finally disbanded the DH. Unfortunately I have 2 3B and 2 1B who play nowhere else. (was using extras as platoon DH)

If I start playing them in, say LF, will they eventually develop ratings and progress as LFs?
I know I can just edit them to make them play other positions but I'm trying not to "cheat".

[BirdWatcher]

This really depends upon their underlying ratings.
What are their outfield range ratings like? What kind of foot speed do they have?
If they have at least adequate outfield range ratings (quite separate from whether they have any experience rating at the position) and a bit of natural speed, they could, with time and experience, turn into at least adequate left fielders. And if they have strong outfield arm ratings and even somewhat below par outfield range ratings, they might have the potential to become decent right fielders.
But if you look at their base outfield defensive ratings (range, errors, arm) and they are very low, and given that we are talking about corner infielders here who I'm guessing likely don't possess great natural speed, it won't matter really how much you play them in the outfield, they will never be proficient there. Without knowing anything about the players you are looking at here, I would think it would be possible that a third baseman, who almost surely has a strong infield arm, might also have a decent outfield arm and could be passable in right field.

But just taking any random third baseman or first baseman, not knowing the details about the particular players here, the chances of them becoming solid outfielders is probably on the slim side.

[mrbadguy]

They have no ratings in the Outfield at all. Only 1B , other guy only 3B. The 1B has rather poor ratings as is.

I wasn't sure if they started playing "out of position" if they would naturally develop some ratings (even poor ratings) at a new position.
Sort of slowly transform a 1B or 3B into being able to play LF, even though they have no current ratings in Outfield.

If I cant move them then I guess I have to trade them. Both are too valuable to just be pinch hitters.

[BirdWatcher]

Originally Posted by mrbadguy

They have no ratings in the Outfield at all. Only 1B , other guy only 3B. The 1B has rather poor ratings as is.

I wasn't sure if they started playing "out of position" if they would naturally develop some ratings (even poor ratings) at a new position.
Sort of slowly transform a 1B or 3B into being able to play LF, even though they have no current ratings in Outfield.

If I cant move them then I guess I have to trade them. Both are too valuable to just be pinch hitters.

Sorry, I'm not in front of the game right now so I can't screenshot what I am trying to explain here.
They will have outfield ratings of some sort- I think you are referring to their experience ratings, of which of course they have none.
But all players will have base ratings for infield and outfield. Go to their profile and click on the ratings tab, I believe, and you should see this.
Now these might just be very, very low and that would indicate that they will never be able to play this position. (As an example, in my fictional league I use a 1-10 rating system. All my players will be rated for their catching ability and their arm as a catcher, but nearly all of them- all the non-catchers- will have a rating of 1 in these categories. I could play them at catcher every day and they would always just be horrible at this position.

But to make any intelligent decision about whether you could "teach" these players to play the outfield, you will first need to check on their basic outfield ratings.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by mrbadguy

They have no ratings in the Outfield at all. Only 1B , other guy only 3B. The 1B has rather poor ratings as is.

I wasn't sure if they started playing "out of position" if they would naturally develop some ratings (even poor ratings) at a new position.
Sort of slowly transform a 1B or 3B into being able to play LF, even though they have no current ratings in Outfield.

If I cant move them then I guess I have to trade them. Both are too valuable to just be pinch hitters.

How about OF range, OF error, OF arm?

If they have some ratings there (maybe something better than 20) then, with experience, they can gain some ratings in the OF. If they don't I don't know if they will ever get OF ratings.

Of course, they can play in the OF and be terrible.

And in LF, there's some evidence that defense doesn't matter as much as at other positions.
https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=308062

[BirdWatcher]

Perhaps this image will help explain what I mean:


So, you see, my current first baseman does have a rating in left field and center field, but not in right field.

However, his base defensive ratings in the outfield are 5 (out of 10) outfield range, 5 outfield error, and 6 outfield arm.
So I could conceivably play him in right field and as he gained some experience there he would then be rated at that position as well. But his potential to become very good at that position is very limited. He has average range and only a slightly above average arm. If he played right field every day for four or five months he would probably become an adequate right fielder.

But if his base defensive ratings for the outfield were instead 2 (range) 2 (errors) and 2 (arm) then no matter how much I played him there he would never become acceptable at that position.

Is this more clear?

[mrbadguy]

ok. now I see.
So this guy, has some ratings in OF, but even though he has now played a few games in LF, he is still listed only as a 1B.
If I continue playing him in LF, will his "Positional Ratings" eventually list LF as a possible position?
I dont want to cheat and just edit him into the OF. If I choose to play him, I accept a very poor defensive LF.

[BirdWatcher]

Originally Posted by mrbadguy

ok. now I see.
So this guy, has some ratings in OF, but even though he has now played a few games in LF, he is still listed only as a 1B.
If I continue playing him in LF, will his "Positional Ratings" eventually list LF as a possible position?
I dont want to cheat and just edit him into the OF. If I choose to play him, I accept a very poor defensive LF.

Yes, that is essentially how it works. I have seldom played using this more traditional scouting rating system so I don't speak from experience regarding these ratings but it seems like his outfield range rating is so low that even if he plays left field for an extended period of time he probably has the ceiling of receiving only a very low rating at that position. Now, as Cbeisbol indicted, defense at left field isn't terribly important necessarily. I can't see all of the hitting ratings for your player, but if he rakes you could likely live with him being a very poor left fielder. (Of course, better yet to have a good defensive left-fielder who also rakes. )

My understanding is that the less capable a player is of playing a position the longer it will take for an experience rating to show up for him at that position. Though also the difficulty of the position is a factor as well, I believe. It would take far longer from someone to gain experience ratings at shortstop, for instance, than in left field.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by mrbadguy

ok. now I see.
So this guy, has some ratings in OF, but even though he has now played a few games in LF, he is still listed only as a 1B.
If I continue playing him in LF, will his "Positional Ratings" eventually list LF as a possible position?
I dont want to cheat and just edit him into the OF. If I choose to play him, I accept a very poor defensive LF.

He does have OF skill ratings, so with experience I would expect him to get ratings as an OFer. They'll probably be bad with a 20 range and the other ratings being poor as well.

Though, he's a 55 (out of 80?) at 1B with poor infield ratings.

[mrbadguy]

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

He does have OF skill ratings, so with experience I would expect him to get ratings as an OFer. They'll probably be bad with a 20 range and the other ratings being poor as well.

Though, he's a 55 (out of 80?) at 1B with poor infield ratings.

He rated 55, but IMO his defensive ratings at 1B are low

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by mrbadguy

He rated 55, but IMO his defensive ratings at 1B are low

In my sim, Joey Votto is also rated 55 (out of 80) with IF ratings of 40 at range, arm, error and turn DP

[BirdWatcher]

He's also 6' 6".
That enhances his value at first base a bit beyond his basic infield ratings.

[Argonaut]

This guy can only play 1B. 20 Outfield Range means he can never play in the OF, even in LF.

He throws lefty, so he can't play any infield position besides 1B. Even if he was righty his ratings are so bad he couldn't or shouldn't play elsewhere anyway. It does help his 1B rating that he's 6'6", as others have said.

And no need to even discuss catcher, as I would only play someone there who has at least 55 Catcher Ability.

I've researched and analyzed the defensive positions in OOTP so much that I can tell at a glance what position all my players should play. I'm not saying everyone should be that hardcore, but it's the kind of thing I enjoy.

[BirdWatcher]

Originally Posted by Argonaut

This guy can only play 1B. 20 Outfield Range means he can never play in the OF, even in LF.

I assume you mean that he can never play the outfield successfully. Because, well, obviously if his manager wants him to he can play the outfield. No rule against playing a position you completely suck at.
But, are you suggesting he would never get any kind of positional rating, even the lowest? I'm not challenging that, I just don't know and I'm curious if this is what you are actually confident about here.

Now, would I try to turn this guy into an outfielder? Absolutely not.

[Argonaut]

Originally Posted by BirdWatcher

I assume you mean that he can never play the outfield successfully. Because, well, obviously if his manager wants him to he can play the outfield. No rule against playing a position you completely suck at.
But, are you suggesting he would never get any kind of positional rating, even the lowest? I'm not challenging that, I just don't know and I'm curious if this is what you are actually confident about here.

Now, would I try to turn this guy into an outfielder? Absolutely not.

A lot of guys can get what appears to be a 20 rating on the 20-80 scale if they play a position -- just from having the experience. But underneath the hood it'll only be a 1/250 rating, which is awful. This is actually worse than having a 0 rating, because it gives the AI license to play a guy in a position that he's unable to play.

You're right that you can play anybody anywhere. If you want to tank, play a lefty at shortstop. That's a surefire way to lose an extra 20 games.

But in order to get any rating at all above 1 in a position, you have to clear some hurdle rates in the underlying ratings. Taking a look at the 1B above, I plugged his roughly estimated numbers into the editor. He would need about 30/250 Outfield Range to get anything higher than a 1/250 rating at LF. He might not have that underneath his 20/80 rating.

Even though I've found that LF is not that important defensively, I still would want someone who can play the position there. If I had a Barry Bonds type bat in the NL, I could maybe accept a 35/80 OF Range in LF, but I'd never play someone with 20.

It's worth trying out though, as is everything in OOTP.

[Bobfather]

What if you tried one of the 3B at !B if it works keep him and trade the other guy. #B to 1B should be easier then inf-outfield. Just a suggestion.
Also if either has options send him down and lock into other position.

[Dyzalot]

Moving from third base to first base is one of the best position transfers in OOTP. Almost any capable third baseman becomes a very good if not excellent defensive first baseman, especially if they are over six feet tall. I love making that move when I have an aging third baseman who can still hit. I sometimes see guys aged 35+ become gold glove caliber first basemen.