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Old 12-13-2019, 01:03 PM   #1
HRBaker
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PT Conclusion Comments

There has to come a point when one has to stop "moaning" about what the game is and either play it or go on to something else. I'm going to try and summarize my thoughts on Perfect Team and try to disengage myself from the endless comments and responses in this forum. I mean, at some point we have to wait and see what, if anything we have suggested, will find itself in Version 21.


A few things to get straight before I start...


1) This is MY opinion and I realize many of you may disagree.
2) I don't claim to have the answers - I can only comment on what I think would be better.
and 3) I still love this game (OOTP) and will continue to play the Classic game as well as forge ahead with my 3 F2P PT teams.


Part 1: I'm disappointed in both card collecting and tournaments. They both feel like jobs. I'm retired, and have a lot more time than most - and I STILL don't want to spend all my waking hours in front of the PT screens. Both of these game branches need to be "accessories" to the game - not equal partners. Hopefully, the Devs will continue to adjust/improve these parts of the game in coming versions.


Part 2: PT itself, and the three teams we get to run, is a fun concept - ESPECIALLY the first 4-6 months after release. I'm not into spending a lot of money (if any) next version - but I will definitely play. There has been a lot said about competition - and the fact (it IS a fact - not a perception) that too many teams make it to Perfect Level that don't belong there... and I would LOVE to see something done to fix that. The structure should be a true pyramid - very few teams on top. I also think (STILL think) that whatever limitations are suppose to be applied to "tanking" should be coded into the game. I absolutely HATE the fact we, the players, have to be the policemen. AND - the BIGGEST improvement I would like to see is a RESET button. Once we get 6 months into the release and find ourselves drowning against our competition, we should have the option to completely void our team and start over as a newbie. If that option was available today, I'd likely close down 2 of my 3 teams.


Part 3: CLASSIC OOTP - If PT has proven anything to me, it's how perfect a game we had to start with. Now that my PT interest has waned, I've gotten much more involved in the game that started it all. Playing out the day-to-day details of running a ball club is STILL the best part of this game, and I will continue to be heavily involved.


Well, without 10 pages of boring reading, that pretty much summarizes how I feel about OOTP and Perfect Team at the moment. It's about 4 months until we get a look at the new Version - and I'm praying some of our suggestions are part of it.


PS: As critical as I sound sometimes, I really love these guys for giving me a game I've played religiously for almost 20 years. Thank You.
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Old 12-13-2019, 01:57 PM   #2
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Agree with a lot of HR's points ... especially the pyramid structure.

I also think the Live card ratings need to continue to be evaluated, particularly the reliever ratings completely cratering. I'll reiterate an idea I posted a month or two ago about having two types of Current player cards ... one that is Live and dynamic like this year's and a second that is fixed based on Opening Day evaluations (I'd propose you could call them Opening Day cards). A bonus would be better player photos on cards as seeing repetitive profile pictures gets old to look at.

For OOTP 21 I'm just looking for some fine tuning in the PT mode and a good round of UI improvements and I'll be happy.
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Old 12-13-2019, 02:05 PM   #3
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I know you don't expect this... but I agree with everything in your post.

I especially agree with the pyramid. There are too many Perfect Leagues and that spoils the experience for many players who would be having more fun in gold or diamond level. The relegation and promotion numbers for Diamond to Perfect should be larger (8 to 10 per season) in order to give people a taste of Perfect and allow them to get out quickly.

PT has just taken code from the regular game for many of the features. I hope that new code can be developed specific to PT that will alleviate some of the tedium associated with card management and eliminate some of the unprofessional presentation (such as mailbox items that are obviously not applicable to the PT environment). I believe that slick card management tools would eliminate a lot of the "work" involved in tournaments and collections.
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Old 12-13-2019, 02:15 PM   #4
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Your Part 1 hits the hardest imo.

It reminds me of this point in a talk Mark Rosewater (head Magic designer) made about game design regarding the importance of making the "correct" strategy also the "fun" strategy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHHg99hwQGY&t=2307s

If I'm committing myself to a game then I'm in 100%. I don't like the feeling that I'm missing out on stuff that can be earned. I stayed at the bottom levels while I built up my points because incremental improvement is the worst thing you can do long-term and getting promoted quickly at the start just gets you stuck (a key issue that needs to be addressed). I refreshed the auction house constantly for deals once missions were figured out because that is the way to make points as F2P. Hours and hours a day where I had the game either up on my phone or on a separate monitor where I'd give it a quick check every minute. Same with tournaments when they came out, had to always be looking for the best value and don't want to leave one of your slots unused.

At the end of the day it worked. I earned millions of points. A team I never dreamed possible of having after playing last year where you could be competitive in perfect with cards like live patrick corbin and larry dierker and such. But looking back, was that actually fun? No. The correct strategy is not the fun strategy.
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Old 12-13-2019, 03:28 PM   #5
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I generally like collections & tourneys fine, but with respect to card management, it can be pretty frustrating. I think it would feel a lot more "fun" if it was easier and less risky to perform basic roster management.

What I mean by that, is every time I try to clean up my reserve/inactive roster, I end up accidentally selling off collection pieces, as well as messing up my tourney rosters. Remembering every single collection piece & tourney roster is a lot to ask of players, and it's not realistic. This seems like a major weakness.

My wish list for OOTP21 would look something like this:
1) better card management quality-of-life tools
2) fix catcher defense!!
3) stronger enforcement against blatant tankers
4) fix the sewage-colored water in McCovey Cove
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Old 12-13-2019, 06:28 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkgo View Post
The correct strategy is not the fun strategy.

I spent a lot of time trying different lineup strategies (some of which I could've tested in Tourneys if they'd existed) and found a number of interesting wrinkles that helped me maximize value. Unfortunately this narrowed the number of cards I was looking for and while I was able to get great bang out of my buck, at some point being efficient just meant i got to the meat-grinder quicker.


So I pursued a strategy I found challenging and did very well with it taking advantage of baseball strategies like shifts, platoons, FB/GO, etc.


But finding good values doesn't do you very much good beyond allowing you to move up threw the ranks relatively quickly without using a lot of PP, which is actually a huge detriment. So I'm very with you that the "fun" game strategy doesn't help you, but actually hindered me in pt20. I really didn't bother with collections because I didn't want to spend most of my time on the AH. I preferred looking at stats and strategies. Sadly, I would've been better off indulging the accountant in me.


I share Orcin's hope that a lot smoother functioning marketplace and better UI would remove a portion of the tedium, but I fear a game still overly tilted toward being a market-making game closer to Real Estate Tycoon than Madden.

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Old 12-14-2019, 05:34 AM   #7
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Sadly, I would've been better off indulging the accountant in me.

It saddens me that incremental upgrades are the worst thing you can do.

Yah, starting six months earlier would definitely have made a difference, as would cost-benefit analysis of the collections much earlier.

And drawing fire once (just once :fistshake would surely have helped. Instead I drew gold relief pitchers over and over and over.

Ooh, and perfect DeGrom three times consecutively. (100%)

But I dominated a server economy for the better part of five years, and I really, really don't want to play Auction House again. Really. Don't.
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Old 12-14-2019, 09:59 AM   #8
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I think there should be a zero tolerance tanking policy for PT3.0. It should be made clear, before anyone starts playing, what constitutes tanking and, if caught once, the player will be banned.
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Old 12-14-2019, 12:44 PM   #9
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I agree with the OP and have one thing to add:

I'd like to see tournaments run more like horse racing handicaps. By that I mean I'd like to retain the 'color card' tournaments, but add additional classifications like 'maiden'--meaning this tournament is only open to teams that have not won in this card color. Other breakdowns can be 2-5 wins, 6 and over and so forth, if necessary.

It annoys me to almost always being knocked out by the same team that goes on to win multiple times.
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Old 12-14-2019, 05:22 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_The_Lip View Post
I agree with the OP and have one thing to add:

I'd like to see tournaments run more like horse racing handicaps. By that I mean I'd like to retain the 'color card' tournaments, but add additional classifications like 'maiden'--meaning this tournament is only open to teams that have not won in this card color. Other breakdowns can be 2-5 wins, 6 and over and so forth, if necessary.

It annoys me to almost always being knocked out by the same team that goes on to win multiple times.

That's kind of an interesting idea.
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Old 12-14-2019, 08:59 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_The_Lip View Post
I agree with the OP and have one thing to add:

I'd like to see tournaments run more like horse racing handicaps. By that I mean I'd like to retain the 'color card' tournaments, but add additional classifications like 'maiden'--meaning this tournament is only open to teams that have not won in this card color. Other breakdowns can be 2-5 wins, 6 and over and so forth, if necessary.

It annoys me to almost always being knocked out by the same team that goes on to win multiple times.
Great idea.

If the mega whales want to dominate 200PP tournaments make them play each other
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Old 12-15-2019, 01:01 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_The_Lip View Post
I agree with the OP and have one thing to add:

I'd like to see tournaments run more like horse racing handicaps. By that I mean I'd like to retain the 'color card' tournaments, but add additional classifications like 'maiden'--meaning this tournament is only open to teams that have not won in this card color. Other breakdowns can be 2-5 wins, 6 and over and so forth, if necessary.

It annoys me to almost always being knocked out by the same team that goes on to win multiple times.
As a contrary perspective, I think this would be a really horrible idea. It's not like there are thousands of people queuing for tourneys, if you split the playerbase even further you're going to have a bad time. Plus, it takes away all the motivation. Why invest in a team with a good winrate if all it does is make me face teams who also are stacked? No thanks.
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Old 12-15-2019, 02:39 AM   #13
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I wonder if we have a large enough population to fully sustain the current tournaments and allow additional tournaments or tournament modes.

I always thought that tournaments would also feature more traditional leagues that would play for a season but end in 1/3 the time. Want a quick league with friends, join a certain league tournament and play for 2-3 days (so it is not just click and walk away).

It is already frustrating to see that cap1875 had to be cut back to just a single one.

Do we need ghost teams to fill tournaments that can win but not collect rewards? Any ghost team win is channeled back into the reward pot but increases the payout of the next tournament (like the lottery that increases and attracts more players the next time).


I still believe we have only scratched the surface of how tournaments can be utilized in the future.
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Old 12-15-2019, 03:38 AM   #14
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I wonder if we have a large enough population to fully sustain the current tournaments and allow additional tournaments or tournament modes.

I always thought that tournaments would also feature more traditional leagues that would play for a season but end in 1/3 the time. Want a quick league with friends, join a certain league tournament and play for 2-3 days (so it is not just click and walk away).

It is already frustrating to see that cap1875 had to be cut back to just a single one.

Do we need ghost teams to fill tournaments that can win but not collect rewards? Any ghost team win is channeled back into the reward pot but increases the payout of the next tournament (like the lottery that increases and attracts more players the next time).


I still believe we have only scratched the surface of how tournaments can be utilized in the future.
This is what they really need to do:

1) Make dailies and weeklies playable without the full number firing off. Gave out a crappy card reward that only 40/128 players are interested in? Fire it off anyway, then maybe transition that daily to a weekly or weekly to a monthly if there isn't interest.

2) Create an "OOTP Tourney Tour". Maybe give someone 1 TP (=Tour Point) for winning a daily, and feature a main PT Tour Weekly that gives out a big reward and like 5 TP and a big card reward to the winner. Keep the formats fresh and varied; one week have a "lost in time" format which is played in deadball era with only LIVEs allowed, and the next week do an "Old Timer's Cap" where you do a 1625 cap tourney with an age minimum of 35 on the players, etc. You want to make the available participant list as large as possible, so just pick a huge number like 1024 and then utilize (1) to structure the tourney.

3) Run an OOTP Tour Monthy where you allow entry for people who generated 5 TP (or some cutoff) in that month, and have the card reward be some huge, exclusive, only-copy-in-the-game perfect card. Anything to make tourneys a format where successes mean something.

=====================================

Collections are great on all fronts. My only issue is that I think there needs to be more care taken to make sure those collections toppers are truly deserving of that status. If they're not a hall of famer (or similar), they shouldn't be a chase card. That said, I'm sure it's easier to achieve that in PT21 since you can plan the collections content and the base game content at the same time.
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Old 12-15-2019, 08:13 AM   #15
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Why invest in a team with a good winrate if all it does is make me face teams who also are stacked? No thanks.
Oh, I dunno, racking up 130 Pe wins per regular season, maybe?

Whales don't really need any extra encouragement to Whale, generally speaking.

To try to avoid meaningful competition, yar?
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Old 12-15-2019, 11:53 AM   #16
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This is what they really need to do:

1) Make dailies and weeklies playable without the full number firing off. Gave out a crappy card reward that only 40/128 players are interested in? Fire it off anyway, then maybe transition that daily to a weekly or weekly to a monthly if there isn't interest.

.

or barring that, at least change the reset timer to bump them 1 hour only to wait for it to fill.... it was a bit (ok, VERY) annoying to log in this morning to see the Sunday Early Gold double RR tourney sitting at 63/64 and the timer had reset to a full day (it was down to under 9 hours when I signed up last night and logged out)..... it had the final 64th sign up but now has to wait 17 hours to kick off....
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Old 12-15-2019, 01:21 PM   #17
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it had the final 64th sign up but now has to wait 17 hours to kick off....
Kick it off with teams of Nobodies in the event some critical threshhold [60% 75% whatever] is met, else reset and try again tomorrow.
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Old 12-15-2019, 02:33 PM   #18
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Why invest in a team with a good winrate if all it does is make me face teams who also are stacked? No thanks.
And why would I want to constantly face those teams when I have no chance?

You will have one less potential opponent if nothing is done to make things more favorable to those of us who don't invest.
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Old 12-15-2019, 02:50 PM   #19
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And why would I want to constantly face those teams when I have no chance?

You will have one less potential opponent if nothing is done to make things more favorable to those of us who don't invest.
I'm a F2P powergamer. If the mode doesn't have a good payoff, I'm not interested. I'm not going to invest in the first place.
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Old 12-15-2019, 03:25 PM   #20
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I agree that aspects of PT and tournaments are tedious and need major UI improvements. I disagree that tournaments should be an accessory to the core game. PT and tournaments are the future of this game.

There's little growth to be had with improving the core game. I asked two of my buddies into baseball the same question, had they played this game. They both said they had picked up a previous release but found the core game too much for them. No matter how much you improve the core game, you will not make these two into loyal customers. They're not interested in figuring out options or the rule 5 draft. They want to open packs and make line-ups. Improve PT and tournaments and I bet they'd both be dropping dollars into the game.

Some of you will hate this, but the future of this game is in appealing to casuals.
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