AI Trade Offers...Dumb

sreem · 07-07-2017, 03:53 PM

Will we ever see an end to the dumb AI trade offers like this example? At least when I offer a trade, it is generally involves something the other team needs!

I mean, come on, Andrus isn't that different than the SS I already have and he cost a fortune! My team focus is set to Rebuilding, so why in the world would the AI offer an overpriced veteran for a cheap outfielder and one of my top pitching prospects!

This type of offer happens way too often, and then when I construct a trade that actually benefits BOTH teams involved, I get insulted by the AI GM.

I have trading set to Average difficulty, but I find it terribly hard to actually execute a reasonable trade, and I usually have to give up a big prospect if I want to get someone I want.

Oh well, thanks for letting me vent

Bulldawgz24 · 07-07-2017, 04:35 PM

95% of all offers I get are complete crap, but if you setup a particular need you will get offers from teams that can fulfill that particular need. The trade offer is still crap, but you can just go in and negotiate.

I don't know if it's ever been mentioned before, but this past season it seemed like every trade near the trade deadline was a veteran player for another veteran player......usually at that time you would see playoff contending teams deal prospects for proven veterans....ODD

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The Yurpman · 07-07-2017, 04:37 PM

I get where you're coming from but you have to remember the AI doesn't recognize names. They don't know Elvis Andrus from Elvis Presley. Take the names out and just look at everything else. Also, take in to account that the offer the AI gives you is really just an initial offer. You can always negotiate.

sreem · 07-07-2017, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Yurpman

I get where you're coming from but you have to remember the AI doesn't recognize names. They don't know Elvis Andrus from Elvis Presley. Take the names out and just look at everything else. Also, take in to account that the offer the AI gives you is really just an initial offer. You can always negotiate.

Taking the names out it is still a dumb offer.

Overpaid veteran SS for bench outfielder and organizational Top 5 SP prospect when the team already has a SS with comparable stats/ratings and is set to Rebuilding mode.

It's just dumb. I understand the Trade AI is a hard thing to code to reality, but I agree with a previous post-er, it seems to have taken a step back this year. We should see more teams with Rebuilding focus able to trade veterans for Prospects and vice versa.

For a game that is so close to imitating reality, it falls desperately short in this area IMO

Déjà Bru · 07-07-2017, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sreem

Oh well, thanks for letting me vent

That's quite alright. As a matter of fact, I was playing OOTP just now when I thought to pause my game, come here, and do some venting myself. As a matter of fact, I was going to search for a thread to piggyback upon, rather than starting one of my own, and yours was right there for the picking!

So yeah. I've been playing this game for a long time and I love it. For many years now, we've been seeing every new version tagged with some version of "improved AI," particularly in trading.

Yet, I don't really get a good feel for how trading is handled in this game, even now. When I initiate a trade, and I have Trading set to Hard difficulty, I can't get a decent deal unless I pay through the nose. If I have Trading set to Average difficulty, however, it's a bit too easy and I dominate unrealistically.

When I receive a trade offer on Hard difficulty, it is invariably the same nonsense: "I will trade you this marginally decent player (who usually has low work ethic and intelligence, by the way - look for that) and this scrub for your best pitcher/prospect." It gets tiring. As a matter of fact, I'm going back to my game to set Trading Frequency to low.

What's the answer? I don't know. I wish I did. I still love OOTP and this is not a dealbreaker for me, but I wish trading felt a bit more realistic on one setting or another.

Calvert98 · 07-07-2017, 06:34 PM

I have my game settings for Trade AI at: Very Difficult, favor prospects. MLB standard game, no potential/overall ratings “stars”.

Yes, I have seen a couple of those “throw-against-the-wall” proposals, but not that many.

Also, I have completed two rather decent trades, without paying a King’s ransom, and they were rather fair trades candidly.

Of course, the trade AI can always be improved; I wonder if in 18 however, those changes you are seeing are sort part of a revised AI difficulty setting for this version.

dkgo · 07-07-2017, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bulldawgz24

I don't know if it's ever been mentioned before, but this past season it seemed like every trade near the trade deadline was a veteran player for another veteran player......usually at that time you would see playoff contending teams deal prospects for proven veterans....ODD

I think the game really struggles with veteran for prospect trades because the AI doesn't handle full 40-man roster issues well

zukes · 07-07-2017, 10:58 PM

I was shocked the other night when I actually got a very useful offer from the AI. I'm in 1st overall and they're out of it and sent me a guy who's going to get a huge raise in his last year of arb for a pitching prospect. There were some other pieces and it took a little negotiating to make it something I liked, but it was awesome to actually have a great starting point for a trade from the AI!

RchW · 07-07-2017, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sreem

For a game that is so close to imitating reality, it falls desperately short in this area IMO

Short vs what other offering in the genre?

wilkiburger14 · 07-08-2017, 03:28 AM

Just been offered Tejada SS half a star, for Tazawa 4 star and Giolito 4 star, nothing tempting at any point

dpd376 · 07-08-2017, 07:16 AM

I set the trade difficulty to average and then make absolutely sure that it makes sense for the other team. If you can avoid the temptation to rip off the AI this works pretty well.

Reed · 07-08-2017, 07:53 AM

I have trade set to very hard even though I don't make trades since I think I have an unfair advantage playing historical and knowing how the players are going to play in the future. About 5% of the time I get an offer I would accept straight up if I allowed myself to trade. I once had a team that had Babe Ruth on their roster as a pitcher offer me another player. For the heck of it, I discussed the trade with them and we ended up with them willing to give me Babe Ruth in exchange for the player they were interested and another player (2 average middle age veterans). I was awfully tempted to take it but turned it down.
My point, initial offers aren't very good but it's just a starting point and you get an idea who the other team wants.

Déjà Bru · 07-08-2017, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reed

About 5% of the time I get an offer I would accept straight up if I allowed myself to trade.

It's funny that you said this. Right after I posted above last night, I did have one of those very infrequent (5% of the time may be an good estimate) reasonable trade offers. Not the usual dumb, one-sided, "take this decently rated (but low work ethic and intelligence) player and this scrub for your best player" deals but something that actually was fair and made sense.

I wish we could bump that 5% up to, say, 20% of the time.

buckeye22 · 07-09-2017, 12:31 AM

I set my team needs early on and every offer has at least made sense. Only one offer I even THOUGHT about accepting. Playing as the Rockies and trying to rebuild my rotation around groundballers and defense, the Padres offered me Luis Perdomo straight up for Jon Gray. It was tempting...but in the end it just wouldn't have actually made me any better and I knew it.

Otherwise, it's been a lot of young prospect for older veterans (and of course everyone drooling over David Dahl). I'd consider prospect for veteran trades, but not in spring training when I think I have a decent shot to win. But the offers have been pretty good.

Point is- SET THOSE TEAM NEEDS! The offers make a lot more sense and get a lot better once you do.

NoOne · 07-10-2017, 12:20 PM

negotiating is about hiding your hand so as not to be taken advantage of...

it's unwise to lead with your best offer... even though it's quicker/easier and my prefered method of doing anything similar... the world does not care for logic and decency

think of it as an opening. they are showing you what they want from your organization and likely have a desperate need -- either that player or that position with similar ratings etc etc..

just like "shopping" a player... you may be able to deduce as much from team needs in a trade screen, but you also didn't have to scan through ~30 teams to find it, either. also, those color-coded bubbles do not resolve very well... a "weakness" (red) has a range... to top-end is much different than the bottom portion of the red bubble. (or any color shown.. it's basically a 1-5 stars, which i know is very popular in the forums

)

Elektranaut · 07-12-2017, 04:54 AM

I guess it must be difficult to code A.I. trading patterns but I have to say that this is the one area where the game really let's itself down,and always has.There has been very little improvement down the years which is a shame.The thing I don't understand is why the A.I. is so off beam,year after year I'm getting ludicrous offers or I'm making daft overloaded trades where the A.I. gets fleeced(hello house rules). My favourite offer was a team offering me their ace pitcher for 2 journeyman veterans,one of whom was in triple A a day before the pitcher was due to start in game one of the world series!

Reggie · 07-12-2017, 07:53 AM

I just look at it as an opening offer. Now that I know the other team is interested in one of my players I will try to change the deal. I've occasionally closed a deal that didn't even include the original player they offered. Most trade offers I get (95%) end up as never happening because the other side is stubborn.

As long as we are here, let me question something else. When you shop a player or include him in trade discussions they become upset with transactions.. how do they know? Have my phones been tapped? I wonder if a real GM would tell a player he is going to call around to see if he can get anything for him?

NCBeachBum · 07-12-2017, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reggie

As long as we are here, let me question something else. When you shop a player or include him in trade discussions they become upset with transactions.. how do they know? Have my phones been tapped? I wonder if a real GM would tell a player he is going to call around to see if he can get anything for him?

It does seem like someone in the FO always leaks talks that include anyone with any name recognition, though. Just ask that Mets player who cried on the field a year or two back because he'd been traded, only to find the deal had fallen through.

07-07-2017, 03:53 PM	#1
sreem All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 673	AI Trade Offers...Dumb Will we ever see an end to the dumb AI trade offers like this example? At least when I offer a trade, it is generally involves something the other team needs! I mean, come on, Andrus isn't that different than the SS I already have and he cost a fortune! My team focus is set to Rebuilding, so why in the world would the AI offer an overpriced veteran for a cheap outfielder and one of my top pitching prospects! This type of offer happens way too often, and then when I construct a trade that actually benefits BOTH teams involved, I get insulted by the AI GM. I have trading set to Average difficulty, but I find it terribly hard to actually execute a reasonable trade, and I usually have to give up a big prospect if I want to get someone I want. Oh well, thanks for letting me vent Attached Images __________________ "What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger. Except for bears....."

07-08-2017, 07:16 AM	#11
dpd376 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 104	I set the trade difficulty to average and then make absolutely sure that it makes sense for the other team. If you can avoid the temptation to rip off the AI this works pretty well. __________________ "I hate astroturf, but I love the game astroturf produces." Bill James

07-10-2017, 12:20 PM	#15
NoOne Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,167	negotiating is about hiding your hand so as not to be taken advantage of... it's unwise to lead with your best offer... even though it's quicker/easier and my prefered method of doing anything similar... the world does not care for logic and decency think of it as an opening. they are showing you what they want from your organization and likely have a desperate need -- either that player or that position with similar ratings etc etc.. just like "shopping" a player... you may be able to deduce as much from team needs in a trade screen, but you also didn't have to scan through ~30 teams to find it, either. also, those color-coded bubbles do not resolve very well... a "weakness" (red) has a range... to top-end is much different than the bottom portion of the red bubble. (or any color shown.. it's basically a 1-5 stars, which i know is very popular in the forums ) Last edited by NoOne; 07-10-2017 at 12:22 PM.

07-07-2017, 04:35 PM	#2
Bulldawgz24 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Nov 2016 Posts: 218	95% of all offers I get are complete crap, but if you setup a particular need you will get offers from teams that can fulfill that particular need. The trade offer is still crap, but you can just go in and negotiate. I don't know if it's ever been mentioned before, but this past season it seemed like every trade near the trade deadline was a veteran player for another veteran player......usually at that time you would see playoff contending teams deal prospects for proven veterans....ODD Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

07-07-2017, 04:37 PM	#3
The Yurpman Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 318	I get where you're coming from but you have to remember the AI doesn't recognize names. They don't know Elvis Andrus from Elvis Presley. Take the names out and just look at everything else. Also, take in to account that the offer the AI gives you is really just an initial offer. You can always negotiate.

07-07-2017, 06:34 PM	#6
Calvert98 All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 579	I have my game settings for Trade AI at: Very Difficult, favor prospects. MLB standard game, no potential/overall ratings “stars”. Yes, I have seen a couple of those “throw-against-the-wall” proposals, but not that many. Also, I have completed two rather decent trades, without paying a King’s ransom, and they were rather fair trades candidly. Of course, the trade AI can always be improved; I wonder if in 18 however, those changes you are seeing are sort part of a revised AI difficulty setting for this version.

07-07-2017, 10:58 PM	#8
zukes All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: London, Ont. Canada Posts: 1,105	I was shocked the other night when I actually got a very useful offer from the AI. I'm in 1st overall and they're out of it and sent me a guy who's going to get a huge raise in his last year of arb for a pitching prospect. There were some other pieces and it took a little negotiating to make it something I liked, but it was awesome to actually have a great starting point for a trade from the AI!

07-08-2017, 03:28 AM	#10
wilkiburger14 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 153	Just been offered Tejada SS half a star, for Tazawa 4 star and Giolito 4 star, nothing tempting at any point

07-08-2017, 07:53 AM	#12
Reed All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 1,939	I have trade set to very hard even though I don't make trades since I think I have an unfair advantage playing historical and knowing how the players are going to play in the future. About 5% of the time I get an offer I would accept straight up if I allowed myself to trade. I once had a team that had Babe Ruth on their roster as a pitcher offer me another player. For the heck of it, I discussed the trade with them and we ended up with them willing to give me Babe Ruth in exchange for the player they were interested and another player (2 average middle age veterans). I was awfully tempted to take it but turned it down. My point, initial offers aren't very good but it's just a starting point and you get an idea who the other team wants.

07-09-2017, 12:31 AM	#14
buckeye22 Major Leagues Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 322	I set my team needs early on and every offer has at least made sense. Only one offer I even THOUGHT about accepting. Playing as the Rockies and trying to rebuild my rotation around groundballers and defense, the Padres offered me Luis Perdomo straight up for Jon Gray. It was tempting...but in the end it just wouldn't have actually made me any better and I knew it. Otherwise, it's been a lot of young prospect for older veterans (and of course everyone drooling over David Dahl). I'd consider prospect for veteran trades, but not in spring training when I think I have a decent shot to win. But the offers have been pretty good. Point is- SET THOSE TEAM NEEDS! The offers make a lot more sense and get a lot better once you do.

07-12-2017, 04:54 AM	#16
Elektranaut Major Leagues Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 361	I guess it must be difficult to code A.I. trading patterns but I have to say that this is the one area where the game really let's itself down,and always has.There has been very little improvement down the years which is a shame.The thing I don't understand is why the A.I. is so off beam,year after year I'm getting ludicrous offers or I'm making daft overloaded trades where the A.I. gets fleeced(hello house rules). My favourite offer was a team offering me their ace pitcher for 2 journeyman veterans,one of whom was in triple A a day before the pitcher was due to start in game one of the world series!

07-12-2017, 07:53 AM	#17
Reggie Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 442	I just look at it as an opening offer. Now that I know the other team is interested in one of my players I will try to change the deal. I've occasionally closed a deal that didn't even include the original player they offered. Most trade offers I get (95%) end up as never happening because the other side is stubborn. As long as we are here, let me question something else. When you shop a player or include him in trade discussions they become upset with transactions.. how do they know? Have my phones been tapped? I wonder if a real GM would tell a player he is going to call around to see if he can get anything for him?