2013 World Series - Page 36

Bluenoser · 10-31-2013, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoSoxFan

In 1918, the Braves were the only other Boston pro sports team. Oh, how times have changed...

Fixed that for ya

BoSoxFan · 10-31-2013, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

Fixed that for ya

Well, that was embarrassing!

Tony M · 10-31-2013, 07:20 AM

At least we now have to wait until 2015 at the earliest for the Yankees to become the most storied club of this millennium!

I wonder if Koji has yet been elevated to exalted status by the Japanese yet?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4

ThatSeventiesGuy · 10-31-2013, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony M

Still can't believe they walked Ortiz 4 times...

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The way he hit this Series, I'm surprised it was ONLY four times.

Orcin · 10-31-2013, 07:44 AM

Congratulations to the Red Sox and their fans. The best team won. Lester and Ortiz were outstanding, but everyone contributed.

Manager John Farrell had his team ready to play, and should be Manager of the Year for the job that he did in turning the franchise around. Farrell and his staff were on top of every tactical move (defensive shifts, bullpen management, lineup configuration, etc.) and really outperformed their counterparts on the Cardinals.

BoSoxFan · 10-31-2013, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony M

At least we now have to wait until 2015 at the earliest for the Yankees to become the most storied club of this millennium!

I wonder if Koji has yet been elevated to exalted status by the Japanese yet?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4

The Yankees are a collapsing franchise right now. The Core Four are gone other than Jeter, they have eleventy-seven free agents, and their core team which they'll manage to keep together is old, and thus prone to injury and decline. I personally expect another downslide circa 80s/early 90s for them, and I don't know if they'll have a core of clutch players like the Core Four to start another dynasty with the playoff system the way it is.

ThatSeventiesGuy · 10-31-2013, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Questdog

Awful hitting coaching?.....

I suppose you could say coaching of hitting, but that sounds kind of Yoda-ish.

"Bad coaching we had. Sucked, we did."

Questdog · 10-31-2013, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThatSeventiesGuy

I suppose you could say coaching of hitting, but that sounds kind of Yoda-ish.

"Bad coaching we had. Sucked, we did."

My question is not of your syntax, but of your idea.

How can you have any clue as to what was coached by Mabry?......

I repeat what I said earlier, "The worst trait of the Cardinals 'fans' * is their capacity for feeding on their own." Every team has players and/or coaches who are viewed as outsiders by the team's fans and thus fair game for being scapegoated. But every team, other than the Cardinals, has players and coaches that are considered family and embraced warts and all. The difference in St. Louis is the the welcome mat into the family is never issued unconditionally. Every player or coach is subject to expulsion from the family unit at any time (and over the slightest of infractions).

Albert Pujols did more for the Cardinals than any player in the last 20 years, but is now nearly universally reviled in St. Louis because he was proven to possess the desire to accumulate more wealth ( a trait shared with 99.9% of those reviling him).

By contrast, Pete Rose was also proven to have the same shortcoming as Albert Pujols and left Cincinnati for more money after a long tenure with the Reds. But Pete was never blamed for this (Dick Wagner was). And later when Pete returned to the family home and was proven to have even more shortcomings that brought the shame of national attention upon us, he was never excommunicated. On the contrary he was defended with a near religious zeal against outsiders who ridiculed him (just as any family member ought to be by another family member, even if the outsiders are in the right). We never stopped loving him, even though he made us sad, and to this day he can still find regular work doing commercials.

ThatSeventiesGuy · 10-31-2013, 01:03 PM

Albert's still pretty respected in most corners...you REALLY need to stop thinking that "best fans" crap represents ALL Cardinals fans. Personally, I think they made the right call NOT re-signing him (How have the Angels done since?), but I've never had an issue with him following the money. It's a business, everybody does it.

The other guy had the problem with Mabry, not me. As I see it, you can teach hitting, but clutch hitting, which was the Cardinals real problem in the Series, can't really be taught. Not to mention that the Sox pitchers bore down when they needed to far better than the Cards pitchers did.

Hard to believe, but as far as hits go, the Cards outhit the Sox 45-41. So GETTING hits wasn't the problem, putting Mabry off the hook as far as I'm concerned.

Many players are revered in St. Louis. Musial, Brock, Gibson, Ozzie Smith, Dizzy Dean, lots of others. We protect our own, but don't stoop to blind loyalty, either. You screw up, you're gonna hear about it. The Red Sox fans are kind of the same. So are most of the fans of teams that win a lot, come to think of it. And even some teams who haven't won as much historically, like the Phillies (whose fans tend to err in the other direction).

I'm the kind of guy who questions everybody and everything, and finds blind loyalty to anything to be creepy as hell, so I wouldn't have it any other way.

Oh, and how was Dusty Baker treated by Reds Nation, hmm? From what I've seen, not so warmly!

Orcin · 10-31-2013, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThatSeventiesGuy

you REALLY need to stop thinking that "best fans" crap represents ALL Cardinals fans.

Just give up.

Some people have their agenda and they just can't be reasoned with. Only option is to put them on ignore and move on.

ThatSeventiesGuy · 10-31-2013, 01:26 PM

You're probably right, Orcin, but WTF, I'll give it one more go, just to clear something up...

Re: Matheny, for the record...since I'm such a horrible person for not being loyal to the guy, even if I do think he deserves another year at least, let me explain.

To me, it's a similar situation to when Girardi took over for Torre. It was a high-pressure job, and he won the Series in his second year. Now granted, the Yankees buy 'em, while teams like the Red Sox and Cardinals earn 'em, but still, how do you think their fanbase would have reacted if the Yankees had choked in the ALCS his first year, and then looked weak in the Series the second? Especially if he'd misused the bullpen...

Hell, look at Dusty for that matter...lots more playoff appearances than the Reds had seen in decades, but he still got the ax for not winning the big prize. And the Reds fans wanted him gone. It happens. When you start to win, you expect to keep winning, and win it all.

I just simply think they picked the wrong guy, or at least put him in a situation he wasn't ready for. Stick him down at Memphis or Springfield for a few seasons, then you can bring him up if Oquendo or whoever else they got to replace TLR failed.

Bottom line, if Matheny had put up his current record for say, the Cubs, or Mariners or somebody like that, he'd be nominated for mayor in those towns. But in others, like New York, Boston, Philly, St. Louis...it's not good enough. Doesn't make him a horrible human being, just means he's in a higher-pressure situation. Anything less than a championship is not good enough. I think most fans want to have their teams in that situation.

Questdog · 10-31-2013, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThatSeventiesGuy

Oh, and how was Dusty Baker treated by Reds Nation, hmm? From what I've seen, not so warmly!

Dusty Baker was one of the outsiders I mentioned.....he was never embraced, so we did not turn on him.....he's a member of the friggin' Dodger family for Pete's sake....any fan of the Big Red Machine cannot take a Dodger to heart.....

10-31-2013, 07:20 AM	#703
Tony M Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Here Posts: 6,156 Blog Entries: 3	At least we now have to wait until 2015 at the earliest for the Yankees to become the most storied club of this millennium! I wonder if Koji has yet been elevated to exalted status by the Japanese yet? Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4 __________________ This signature is intentionally blank

10-31-2013, 01:03 PM	#709
ThatSeventiesGuy Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Midland, MI Posts: 3,421	Albert's still pretty respected in most corners...you REALLY need to stop thinking that "best fans" crap represents ALL Cardinals fans. Personally, I think they made the right call NOT re-signing him (How have the Angels done since?), but I've never had an issue with him following the money. It's a business, everybody does it. The other guy had the problem with Mabry, not me. As I see it, you can teach hitting, but clutch hitting, which was the Cardinals real problem in the Series, can't really be taught. Not to mention that the Sox pitchers bore down when they needed to far better than the Cards pitchers did. Hard to believe, but as far as hits go, the Cards outhit the Sox 45-41. So GETTING hits wasn't the problem, putting Mabry off the hook as far as I'm concerned. Many players are revered in St. Louis. Musial, Brock, Gibson, Ozzie Smith, Dizzy Dean, lots of others. We protect our own, but don't stoop to blind loyalty, either. You screw up, you're gonna hear about it. The Red Sox fans are kind of the same. So are most of the fans of teams that win a lot, come to think of it. And even some teams who haven't won as much historically, like the Phillies (whose fans tend to err in the other direction). I'm the kind of guy who questions everybody and everything, and finds blind loyalty to anything to be creepy as hell, so I wouldn't have it any other way. Oh, and how was Dusty Baker treated by Reds Nation, hmm? From what I've seen, not so warmly! __________________ https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...00&postcount=1

10-31-2013, 01:26 PM	#711
ThatSeventiesGuy Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Midland, MI Posts: 3,421	You're probably right, Orcin, but WTF, I'll give it one more go, just to clear something up... Re: Matheny, for the record...since I'm such a horrible person for not being loyal to the guy, even if I do think he deserves another year at least, let me explain. To me, it's a similar situation to when Girardi took over for Torre. It was a high-pressure job, and he won the Series in his second year. Now granted, the Yankees buy 'em, while teams like the Red Sox and Cardinals earn 'em, but still, how do you think their fanbase would have reacted if the Yankees had choked in the ALCS his first year, and then looked weak in the Series the second? Especially if he'd misused the bullpen... Hell, look at Dusty for that matter...lots more playoff appearances than the Reds had seen in decades, but he still got the ax for not winning the big prize. And the Reds fans wanted him gone. It happens. When you start to win, you expect to keep winning, and win it all. I just simply think they picked the wrong guy, or at least put him in a situation he wasn't ready for. Stick him down at Memphis or Springfield for a few seasons, then you can bring him up if Oquendo or whoever else they got to replace TLR failed. Bottom line, if Matheny had put up his current record for say, the Cubs, or Mariners or somebody like that, he'd be nominated for mayor in those towns. But in others, like New York, Boston, Philly, St. Louis...it's not good enough. Doesn't make him a horrible human being, just means he's in a higher-pressure situation. Anything less than a championship is not good enough. I think most fans want to have their teams in that situation. __________________ https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...00&postcount=1

10-31-2013, 07:44 AM	#705
Orcin Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Indiana Posts: 9,798	Congratulations to the Red Sox and their fans. The best team won. Lester and Ortiz were outstanding, but everyone contributed. Manager John Farrell had his team ready to play, and should be Manager of the Year for the job that he did in turning the franchise around. Farrell and his staff were on top of every tactical move (defensive shifts, bullpen management, lineup configuration, etc.) and really outperformed their counterparts on the Cardinals.