Anybody else watching the Knicks....

[kenyan_cheena]

I heard there's a rumour that Porz might have started a rumour that the Knicks want to trade him in order to get Jackson fired lol.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Rumors have it that Phil Jackson is actually thinking about trading Porzingis in order to get a higher draft pick. Trading the only good news that Jackson has had since he took over the team. Trading someone with proven All-Star potential for an unproven draftee.

This is not just about drafting strategy. This is also about Jackson being irked that Porzingis blew him off at the end of the season, skipping his season-ending interview because he did not like how Anthony was being treated. This is about Jackson mishandling this situation as he has so many others during his tenure.

This is how bad a team executive Jackson is.

If he does end up doing this, this is not only a fireable offense it should be a criminal offense.

He is worth at least 3 firsts and a above average to good prospect.
The Knicks are moving up my list of worst run NBA team with their front office/ownership double ****show.
Despite going to the finals 3 years in row Cleveland is also moving up that list. Firing the GM 3 days before the draft?
His contract ran out on June 30th. Why not let him conduct draft night and simply let him walk?

[Déjà Bru]

So when Jackson could not swing a deal involving Porzingis with the Celtics and Suns involving their draft choices, apparently because he asked for too many quality players as well, he goes ahead and uses the 8th draft pick for an 18-year-old guy from France (sound familiar?). The young man has done well but he's been playing in the "Ligue Nationale de Basket."

Here are the problems that I can see:

• I would wager that even the top teams of the "Ligue Nationale de Basket" would struggle against Division I-A college basketball teams.
• He's 18 years old. He's going to need to get significantly older to play in the NBA; meantime, he's contributing nothing to the New York Knicks.

I could be wrong and have been before. I was wrong about Porzingis when he was drafted, as a matter of fact (Jackson's willingness to trade him over being snubbed at an exit interview notwithstanding).

But at this point, I have a feeling that the Knicks have wasted a first-round draft pick, again. I also have the feeling of the team being stuck in this endless spiral of bad decisions made by inferior organization management, year after year.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

So when Jackson could not swing a deal involving Porzingis with the Celtics and Suns involving their draft choices, apparently because he asked for too many quality players as well, he goes ahead and uses the 8th draft pick for an 18-year-old guy from France (sound familiar?). The young man has done well but he's been playing in the "Ligue Nationale de Basket."

Here are the problems that I can see:
[LIST][*]I would wager that even the top teams of the "Ligue Nationale de Basket" would struggle against Division I-A college basketball teams.[*]

Ligue A is the second best league in Europe, Strasbourg where Frank plays would beat North Carolina by 30 in a 40 minute game.

Frank does not have the high end projection of Kristaps but I think he can be a solid starter. He is already a hard grinder on defense and has a good muscular body for an 18 year old. He has some shooting and can finish around the rim so I think he will be fine. I don't see him as an All-Star but I do see him as someone who can be a solid starter on a playoff team.

New York should have taken Monk but by no means do I think the pick is wasted.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

Ligue A is the second best league in Europe, Strasbourg where Frank plays would beat North Carolina by 30 in a 40 minute game.

Frank does not have the high end projection of Kristaps but I think he can be a solid starter. He is already a hard grinder on defense and has a good muscular body for an 18 year old. He has some shooting and can finish around the rim so I think he will be fine. I don't see him as an All-Star but I do see him as someone who can be a solid starter on a playoff team.

New York should have taken Monk but by no means do I think the pick is wasted.

I hope you are right. Right now it is hard to hope.

[kenyan_cheena]

Hallelujah, Knicks fans!

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by kenyan_cheena

Hallelujah, Knicks fans!

You will not believe this, but my heart leapt when I saw your post, and I made haste to ESPN to get the news. "Sources say . . ." I hope they are right.

I just gave a sigh of relief. May this performance hang over this man so that he never is offered an executive position again.

[Cobra Mgr]

I don't get why everyone blames Phil for the Knicks sucking. He was hired because the Knicks already sucked. The Knicks screwed the Knicks when they traded for Melo. Once they traded away a good supporting cast in order to get Melo 2-3 months early, they lost all of their room to maneuver & build a good team. No one was going to come into MSG & fix that mess. It was absurd to think a title team could be built around Melo & Amare in the 1st place.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

I don't get why everyone blames Phil for the Knicks sucking. He was hired because the Knicks already sucked. The Knicks screwed the Knicks when they traded for Melo. Once they traded away a good supporting cast in order to get Melo 2-3 months early, they lost all of their room to maneuver & build a good team. No one was going to come into MSG & fix that mess. It was absurd to think a title team could be built around Melo & Amare in the 1st place.

I blame him because he was an incompetent team executive who accomplished nothing with his management style and triangle offense. They brought him in to improve the team and he did not. He was supposed to rally and inspire his players and he did not. Moreover, I blame him for mismanaging player relations, for being a weasel in the way that he treated Anthony (not that I was much of a fan of Anthony) and then for how he started doing the same to Porzingis. Not much of a man, much less a leader.

[TribeFanInNC]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

Despite going to the finals 3 years in row Cleveland is also moving up that list. Firing the GM 3 days before the draft?
His contract ran out on June 30th. Why not let him conduct draft night and simply let him walk?

Late to the party...but this was irrelevant because the Cavs didn't have any draft picks. It was only stupid if it makes LeBron resentful.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

I blame him because he was an incompetent team executive who accomplished nothing with his management style and triangle offense. They brought him in to improve the team and he did not. He was supposed to rally and inspire his players and he did not. Moreover, I blame him for mismanaging player relations, for being a weasel in the way that he treated Anthony (not that I was much of a fan of Anthony) and then for how he started doing the same to Porzingis. Not much of a man, much less a leader.

Was he good exec? No. But he isn't to blame for the Knicks mess. He was one more dirty diaper added to the landfill. It was going to stink whether Jackson's soiled Depends got thrown into the dump or not. The problem was trading for Melo when they weren't forced to. Lakers would do themselves good to remember the Knicks screwup in their pursuit of Paul George.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

Was he good exec? No. But he isn't to blame for the Knicks mess. He was one more dirty diaper added to the landfill. It was going to stink whether Jackson's soiled Depends got thrown into the dump or not. The problem was trading for Melo when they weren't forced to. Lakers would do themselves good to remember the Knicks screwup in their pursuit of Paul George.

I don't get your point of view. You hire a person to take care of a situation, to improve things, and then you don't blame him when he fails? You don't further blame him when he mismanages, demoralizes, and abuses his players? I am not arguing about this any further.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

I don't get your point of view. You hire a person to take care of a situation, to improve things, and then you don't blame him when he fails? You don't further blame him when he mismanages, demoralizes, and abuses his players? I am not arguing about this any further.

The mismanaging demoralizing etc is your opinion. I'm not going debate with you on that. But to claim the Knicks' mess is his responsibility is just wrong. Were the Knicks not screwed up before Phil got there? You're blaming eskimos for Alaska being cold. If you want to blame Phil for not fixing the mess he inherited, then you've got every right to do that. But note: He inherited the mess. The Knicks were a dumpster fire before Phil got his hands on the franchise.

The NYK became a mess when they traded for Melo when they didn't have to. He wanted to go to the Knicks regardless. He wanted his money too. The Knicks blinked. They could have signed him for less if they just waited a couple months, w/o giving up anything, had more room to maneuver & insert him into a better supporting cast. There would have been no reason for him to sign anywhere else except for spite. But despite holding 4 of a kind they folded. Stupid. They got Melo, who does not have the mentality to lead a title team, and no way to pair an equivalent player to make a push. That's why the Supersonics have more playoff wins in the last 17 years than the Knicks.

[TonyJ]

Yes, the Knicks were a mess when they hired Phil Jackson. Jackson made it worse.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by TonyJ

Yes, the Knicks were a mess when they hired Phil Jackson. Jackson made it worse.

That could be true. I'm not going to defend him. The record speaks for itself. But to make him the scapegoat, as if he caused the problems isn't fair. The problem is ownership. NYK is always going to be a mess as long as Dolan writes the checks.

[TonyJ]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

That could be true. I'm not going to defend him. The record speaks for itself. But to make him the scapegoat, as if he caused the problems isn't fair. The problem is ownership. NYK is always going to be a mess as long as Dolan writes the checks.

Yeah, unfortunately I agree with that. The dysfunction starts at the top.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

The mismanaging demoralizing etc is your opinion. I'm not going debate with you on that. But to claim the Knicks' mess is his responsibility is just wrong. Were the Knicks not screwed up before Phil got there? You're blaming eskimos for Alaska being cold. If you want to blame Phil for not fixing the mess he inherited, then you've got every right to do that. But note: He inherited the mess. The Knicks were a dumpster fire before Phil got his hands on the franchise.

You know, I'd like to work for you. Seems like it would be a dream job. "Not my fault! Nothing I can do about it. The last guy screwed up, that's all. Maybe in another three years things will get better." Yeah, right. I don't know who you work for, but here my rear-end would be out the door if that were my assumption and excuse. Not to mention the human resources gaffes I pulled along the way.

Look, have the last word. Hit quote and type here:

[Déjà Bru]

By the way, Cobra Mgr, I do agree with you on this:

NYK is always going to be a mess as long as Dolan writes the checks.

But that does not explain or excuse Jackson's miserable performance on this job other than Dolan mishired him, albeit perhaps in hindsight.

Nevertheless, Dolan gave Jackson the keys to the organization and Jackson ran it into the ground and himself out of town.

Good riddance.

[Déjà Bru]

Wanna take a tour down memory lane? Here's a list of moves Jackson made during his tenure with the Knicks. While you are going through the list, tally how many worked out and how many bombed. Not his fault?

Okay, now you can have that last word, Cobra Mgr.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

You know, I'd like to work for you. Seems like it would be a dream job. "Not my fault! Nothing I can do about it. The last guy screwed up, that's all. Maybe in another three years things will get better." Yeah, right. I don't know who you work for, but here my rear-end would be out the door if that were my assumption and excuse. Not to mention the human resources gaffes I pulled along the way.

Look, have the last word. Hit quote and type here:

Never claimed he shouldn't have gotten fired. Never claimed he did a good job. Never claimed he didn't make things worse. If you want to "work with me", then try to actually read what I wrote instead of arguing points never disputed.

I claimed he's not the reason they are in this situation. Dolan trading for Melo instead of waiting for free agency is the reason why they are in this current mess.