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Old 07-10-2019, 07:16 PM   #1
David Watts
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The AI surrender trend

I don't mind the AI pulling studs when a team gets out to a big lead, but I'm really starting to dislike seeing a guy like Roberto Clemente pinch hit for because his team is down 7-0 in the 9th.
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Old 07-10-2019, 07:53 PM   #2
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I've noticed that too...not sure of the logic behind it
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Old 07-11-2019, 06:11 AM   #3
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I do not like it either.
My guess is the logic is to give bench players some playing time to help with their ratings.
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Old 07-11-2019, 06:44 AM   #4
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happens in real life as I have seen players like Miggy pinch hit for late in games after 6th inning when team winning or losing big Reasoning is not to have players injured. So take them out when the game no longer in doubt and save them for the next game
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Old 07-11-2019, 11:40 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r0nster View Post
happens in real life as I have seen players like Miggy pinch hit for late in games after 6th inning when team winning or losing big Reasoning is not to have players injured. So take them out when the game no longer in doubt and save them for the next game

exactly take out the famous names and run the scenario and it makes perfect sense unless your playing a historical replay season with no injuries.
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Old 07-11-2019, 11:57 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Watts View Post
I don't mind the AI pulling studs when a team gets out to a big lead, but I'm really starting to dislike seeing a guy like Roberto Clemente pinch hit for because his team is down 7-0 in the 9th.
It's remarkable in that your example is exactly the rule of thumb that I use: If I am up or down by 7 runs or more, I swap out my regulars and bring in the bench players, for this reason:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reed View Post
My guess is the logic is to give bench players some playing time to help with their ratings.
. . . and this reason:
Quote:
Originally Posted by r0nster View Post
Reasoning is not to have players injured. So take them out when the game no longer in doubt and save them for the next game
Thanks for confirming my wisdom. If the AI is doing it, so should I.
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Old 07-11-2019, 12:03 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyhdz View Post
exactly take out the famous names and run the scenario and it makes perfect sense unless your playing a historical replay season with no injuries.
Whenever I see the take the famous names argument made I have to laugh. If it was it Ralph Broadhead, a .300+ career hitter and sure Hall of Famer, batting 3rd or 4th in his teams lineup getting lifted for a pinch hitter I would be just as ticked.

Okay, any Season Ticket guys left out there? 1,000 bonus extra credit points for anyone that can tell me which past MLB player was called Ralph Broadhead when the game used fictional names for real players?

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Old 07-11-2019, 12:06 PM   #8
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Ask yourself which has a more meaningful impact on your season?
  1. Said player hitting a meaningless home run in the ninth inning of a 7-1 loss
  2. Said player suffering a long-term injury
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Old 07-11-2019, 12:20 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG17EASY View Post
Ask yourself which has a more meaningful impact on your season?
  1. Said player hitting a meaningless home run in the ninth inning of a 7-1 loss
  2. Said player suffering a long-term injury
Said player starting a rally that leads to said team winning the game. Just had a team score 11 runs in the 9th last night. This is 1970 and bullpens aren't exactly stacked full of studs. It's not a game breaker for me in anyway, as I can see why a team would do it. I also know teams do it in real life. I think my threshold is a little higher than most though. I also didn't realize position players can only get hurt when at bat. I mean if it was 7-0 after Clemente's team batted in the top of the 8th, why did his manager send him out to RF for the bottom of the 8th?
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Old 07-11-2019, 12:31 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Watts View Post
Said player starting a rally that leads to said team winning the game. Just had a team score 11 runs in the 9th last night. This is 1970 and bullpens aren't exactly stacked full of studs. It's not a game breaker for me in anyway, as I can see why a team would do it. I also know teams do it in real life. I think my threshold is a little higher than most though. I also didn't realize position players can only get hurt when at bat. I mean if it was 7-0 after Clemente's team batted in the top of the 8th, why did his manager send him out to RF for the bottom of the 8th?
Your last point about sending him out to play the field in the bottom of the 8th is valid. It makes just as much sense to remove him then as it does to pinch hit for him in the 9th.

The the big comeback you're hoping for is rare and for most managers it makes sense to protect a star player, especially since that star player can't manufacture that comeback all by himself. The percentage chance of that comeback probably drops very minimally with his removal from the lineup when you realize the eight other players also have to contribute in significant ways for a seven-run rally to happen in the last inning. Heck, that spot in the lineup (whether it's the star player or his replacement) could strike out twice in the inning and if the other eight players come through, you could still win the game.
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Old 07-11-2019, 03:56 PM   #11
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This happens in the postseason too though. You really want stars being removed from a 7-1 game in the 6th inning of a modern MLB playoff game? You guys talk about this like it happens all of the time but I never remeber the Red Sox removing players like Jim Rice, Manny Ramirez, Carl Yastrzemski or others just because they were down six run late. Since when did a six run lead become safe in Fenway? I'm tired of watching the AI give up in the 6th when down six and then one of my guys hits a three run homer in the 7th to make it a game again except that now my stars are out, gimping my team the rest of the way.
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Old 07-11-2019, 04:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG17EASY View Post
Ask yourself which has a more meaningful impact on your season?
  1. Said player hitting a meaningless home run in the ninth inning of a 7-1 loss
  2. Said player suffering a long-term injury
More like "said player increasing your chances of winning the game by a few percentage vs increasing his likelihood of incurring an injury during the season by fractions of a percentage". And when it is September and in a close pennant race, I'll take the risk of injury in order to have a chance to come from behind in an important game.
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Old 07-11-2019, 04:06 PM   #13
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There also seems to be no context for the AI deciding when to do this. Like it seems the odds of removing a player late when leading are the same whether or not the player has recently had a day off. The odds seem to be the same no matter how important that game is to getting into the playoffs. The odds seem to be the same in the postseason, which is just crazy. There seems to be no change in the odds whether a day off is coming up or not also. Like if the AI at least planned ahead then it might at least not do it in the postseason since there are so many scheduled off days. But the AI seems to make these decisions in a vacuum.
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Old 07-11-2019, 07:06 PM   #14
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Does the injury argument hold water? Just played a game in which the Reds entered the bottom of the 9th down 11-2. The Reds manager brought in Johnny Bench to pinch hit for the pitcher(not complaining). Bench was only pinch hitter/sub used in the game, so their were other guys you would rather get hurt available.
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Old 07-11-2019, 07:26 PM   #15
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Just curious - have you tried adjusting these two settings in League Setup to see if it makes a difference?

Pinch Hit for Position Players
Defensive Substitutions

Maybe try "Very Rarely", see if it has an noticeable affect.
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Old 07-11-2019, 07:28 PM   #16
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I'm guessing that the AI is taking into account the player's fatigue level as well as the chance of injury. Also, in real life you have to use your bench to keep those guys from getting stale. It's that way in OOTP too, isn't it?
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Old 07-11-2019, 07:45 PM   #17
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Just curious - have you tried adjusting these two settings in League Setup to see if it makes a difference?

Pinch Hit for Position Players
Defensive Substitutions

Maybe try "Very Rarely", see if it has an noticeable affect.
I just lowered pinch hitting for position players to rarely. Default has it set at normal for 1970
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Old 07-11-2019, 07:59 PM   #18
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I just lowered pinch hitting for position players to rarely. Default has it set at normal for 1970
The problem with this is that it is already difficult to get the AI to pinch hit for light hitting, bottom of the order guys when behind so if you lower your global settings it would seem to make that worse. Be nice if there was a setting similar to the defensive replacement one where you could set a run differential amount and an inning to start to trigger the AI to look for possible bench subs for guys who are considered "fragile" or "wrecked".
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Old 07-11-2019, 10:12 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Watts View Post

Okay, any Season Ticket guys left out there? 1,000 bonus extra credit points for anyone that can tell me which past MLB player was called Ralph Broadhead when the game used fictional names for real players?

That is like OOTP 5 days.

But it’s Bobby Higginson
I remember about a dozen or so. Bonds, Pedro, Clemens.
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Old 07-12-2019, 08:18 AM   #20
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Quote:
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That is like OOTP 5 days.

But it’s Bobby Higginson
I remember about a dozen or so. Bonds, Pedro, Clemens.
Holy Cow, I can't believe someone actually remembered. So cool.

I think the only other one I remember is Hoyler Jones and I'm not 100% sure I'm spelling the first name right.
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