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Old 03-22-2019, 01:54 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Curve Ball Dave View Post
They recorded in the score book whether or not a guy flew out (F7 for instance) as opposed to grounded out (6-3 for instance).
I know how to score a baseball game. That stuff wasn't in the box score though. Is it recorded anywhere? It's not on fangraphs or baseball reference.

I mean tell me what DiMaggio's fly ball rates were.
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Old 03-22-2019, 01:55 PM   #82
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1. He said there are people in baseball that watch every at-bat of every game.
Where? I've read the entire thread twice and did not see it. Please link directly to that post.
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Old 03-22-2019, 01:56 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by BIG17EASY View Post
Where? I've read the entire thread twice and did not see it. Please link directly to that post.
http://site.ootpdevelopments.com/boa...0&postcount=25
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Old 03-22-2019, 01:56 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by CMH View Post
You lied that there are people that watch every at-bat of every game to disprove the value of exit velocity.

Now we are truly going in circles here because you want to ignore what you actually posted.

Ok, if it will make you any happier I will concede that there are people who don't watch every at bat (because they know it's not necessary). That still doesn't mean anyone had know Bryce Harper's exit velocity to know he's a good power hitter.
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Old 03-22-2019, 01:57 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Shake Appeal View Post
Telling us things more precisely is literally the value of science. In baseball, specifically, it's worth millions of dollars to ball clubs.

Compare with weather forecasting. "I knew it was going to rain today because I walked outside and water was beginning to fall out of the sky" is not as useful as "Data suggest it's going to rain three days from now because we're tracking a developing warm front."
I'm not sure where you go the idea that I'm against exit velocity. Take a deep breath and re-read my posts.

My only argument against it in OOTP is that we don't know for a fact that it actually affects the game. We know for a fact that pitch speed in OOTP has zero effect on outcome. We need to know that exit velocity has an effect before we can consider it an important metric to be included in the game.

In terms of real life baseball, I wholeheartedly agree that it's useful.
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Old 03-22-2019, 01:59 PM   #86
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I stand corrected, my apologies.
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Old 03-22-2019, 02:00 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Curve Ball Dave View Post
There's still the whole "liar" part. If no one watches every single at bat of a season it's because they know it's not necessary to get a good sample of the player's performance. As another poster noted, you're taking me literally so you can I'm a liar.
Why do you want people who cannot watch every inning of every game to have useful data hidden from them?
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Old 03-22-2019, 02:03 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Curve Ball Dave View Post
Ok, if it will make you any happier I will concede that there are people who don't watch every at bat (because they know it's not necessary). That still doesn't mean anyone had know Bryce Harper's exit velocity to know he's a good power hitter.
In 2016, Harper had a pretty bad season. His BABIP was .264 down from his career .318.

So was that just a bad luck season? Or was it something more?

Hint- I have the answer and didn't watch every one of his plate appearances.
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Old 03-22-2019, 02:04 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by zrog2000 View Post
I know how to score a baseball game. That stuff wasn't in the box score though. Is it recorded anywhere? It's not on fangraphs or baseball reference.

It's not going to be either. In that era they didn't have high speed computers and SQL to sort out data and share it with the world. Scoresheets were kept by the official scorer who turned it into the league so put outs and assists could be credited to the correct player, and other official stats recorded and kept, and teams also had a scorer in the dugout, usually a starting pitcher on his off day. If the Yankees wanted to know the exact numbers for DiMaggio, they'd have pulled the paper sheets out of the file cabinat and had someone count. But the folks in the dugout didn't need the exact numbers. They saw balls that used to clear the fence be caught, and opposing scouts did too.
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Old 03-22-2019, 02:08 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Curve Ball Dave View Post
It's not going to be either. In that era they didn't have high speed computers and SQL to sort out data and share it with the world. Scoresheets were kept by the official scorer who turned it into the league so put outs and assists could be credited to the correct player, and other official stats recorded and kept, and teams also had a scorer in the dugout, usually a starting pitcher on his off day. If the Yankees wanted to know the exact numbers for DiMaggio, they'd have pulled the paper sheets out of the file cabinat and had someone count. But the folks in the dugout didn't need the exact numbers. They saw balls that used to clear the fence be caught, and opposing scouts did too.
Why do you want that hidden from fans?
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Old 03-22-2019, 02:11 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by zrog2000 View Post
Why do you want that hidden from fans?

What hidden from fans? If you want to know a guy's exit velocity, knock yourself out. I'm just saying at best all it can do is verify what you've already observed in other stats.
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Old 03-22-2019, 02:13 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by CMH View Post
As it applies to OOTP, this is a good statement. Why didn't you just ask the developers this question instead of posing it as a confrontational opinion about hit velocity in the game of baseball?

I too would like to know how OOTP is calculating hit velocity and how can I use this information when evaluating a player.

In the real world, I can use hit velocity to probably predict if a player is going to get out of a bad luck streak. Can I do the same in OOTP? Can I see a rising hit velocity and accurately predict that my player might be getting out of his cold streak soon?
Actually, my original comment was made somewhat in jest. I'm not against exit velocity or launch angle being in the game, I'd just rather not hear about it if I'm playing historical, Kind of like the game not using the extreme shifts of today when replaying 1975, Didn't even know I was being confrontational. I apologize if it upset you.
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Old 03-22-2019, 02:18 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Curve Ball Dave View Post
What hidden from fans? If you want to know a guy's exit velocity, knock yourself out. I'm just saying at best all it can do is verify what you've already observed in other stats.
From your first post in this thread, you make it sound like you hate statcast data being in OOTP and then went on to argue that you don't want it at all.
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Old 03-22-2019, 02:24 PM   #94
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From your first post in this thread, you make it sound like you hate it being in OOTP and then went on to argue that you don't want it at all.

I don't care if it's in it or not. I'm saying it won't tell me what I don't already know. You can accurately evaluate players (OOTP and real life) without it because there's other known data you can use. As another poster stated, it won't turn an apple into an orange.
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Old 03-22-2019, 02:37 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Curve Ball Dave View Post
I don't care if it's in it or not. I'm saying it won't tell me what I don't already know. You can accurately evaluate players (OOTP and real life) without it because there's other known data you can use. As another poster stated, it won't turn an apple into an orange.
It will however tell you the difference between bad luck and bad performance without watching every inning of every game. It can do that in one at bat or a week or a month or an entire season. You don't even have to watch a single minute.

And if you see some 16 year old hit a ball 115 mph with a wooden bat, you know damn well that he's something special after that one at bat. You cannot hit a ball that hard without elite major league skills even one time and your eye cannot determine the difference between elite EV (115) and plus EV (105).
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Old 03-22-2019, 02:44 PM   #96
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It will however tell you the difference between bad luck and bad performance without watching every inning of every game. It can do that in one at bat or a week or a month or an entire season. You don't even have to watch a single minute.

If you say so.



Quote:

And if you see some 16 year old hit a ball 115 mph with a wooden bat, you know damn well that he's something special after that one at bat. You cannot hit a ball that hard without elite major league skills even one time and your eye cannot determine the difference between elite EV (115) and plus EV (105).

If he has played any baseball, his ability good or bad will show in his other stats.
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Old 03-22-2019, 02:48 PM   #97
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If you say so.






If he has played any baseball, his ability good or bad will show in his other stats.
Not necessarily. You can't even judge anyone's stats in the DSL because the defense and pitching is so inconsistent.
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Old 03-22-2019, 02:55 PM   #98
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Not necessarily. You can't even judge anyone's stats in the DSL because the defense and pitching is so inconsistent.

Then we send a scout to watch. That 115 hit could have been off of a guy throwing 84mph which is the upper limit of what the guy can hit. He may be incapable of hitting a breaking pitch. One hit in one a bat does not a prospect make. I need to know a lot more than the EV from one at bat. I may be looking at a raw guy who is a very long term project and a big risk, or a sure fire star like Guerrero jr. I don't know enough just by looking at his EV, in fact I know very little.
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Old 03-22-2019, 03:02 PM   #99
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Then we send a scout to watch. That 115 hit could have been off of a guy throwing 84mph which is the upper limit of what the guy can hit. He may be incapable of hitting a breaking pitch. One hit in one a bat does not a prospect make. I need to know a lot more than the EV from one at bat. I may be looking at a raw guy who is a very long term project and a big risk, or a sure fire star like Guerrero jr. I don't know enough just by looking at his EV, in fact I know very little.
Obviously you don't put him in the majors. But one 115 EV event does say a lot. There are almost no major league players who ever reach that even once in their entire career. It's clearly an elite skill no matter when it's done and no matter what pitcher it's against.

What's funny is that EV is exactly what teams are using now when drafting. I follow the Red Sox. I know for a fact that their 2018 draft was filled with guys with above average EV. The evaluations of pick after pick were filled with comments like "another high EV guy".

In any event, a scout writing down "hits the ball really really hard" vs. "hits the ball really hard" is not quite as descriptive as "hit the ball 115 mph".

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Old 03-22-2019, 03:03 PM   #100
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Obviously you don't put him in the majors. But one 115 EV event does say a lot. .

Yes, it says he's a big strong kid with a lot of potential, something anyone who has seen him play already knows.
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