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Old 02-08-2012, 07:05 PM   #1
abell215
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Historic Season Fielding Ratings

..are very poor. 2B Bill Doran has like a 38/100 defensive rating in his prime years (1987ish)?! He was highly regarded as one of the best defensive 2B in that era. Walt Wiess also very poorly rated. I should have written down all of the specifics but I remember being very disappointed with some of the players defensive ratings. Any way we can edit them?
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Old 05-27-2012, 07:07 AM   #2
7mart7
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I have 1970 Willie Davis showing as 11 of range and 5 position rating in cf

Was one of best cf in nl and won gg in 71,72,73 in rl.
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Old 05-27-2012, 09:01 AM   #3
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yes

I have written on this topic before and was strongly rebuked. My complaint was with the 1976 Reds. On a scale of 1-5 they have Joe Morgan rated as a 2 which I feel is ridiculous. There are other players on the 76 Reds that are rated far below what they should be. Of course the 76 Reds are just one example. The Reds had 4 gold glovers up the middle, catcher, SS, 2B, and CF. but the supporters of the game will state that gold glove is a popularity contest and means nothing. I introduced my son, 33, to this game when it came out. I recently asked him how much he played it and he replied "never". He told me that it has good gameplay and is priced low but he feels the defensive ratings are ridiculous. So for that reason he does not play the game. So thank you for sharing your opinion on this matter. It is nice to see that someone agrees with me.
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Old 05-28-2012, 12:33 AM   #4
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omar vizquel and kenny lofton from the 95 Tribe are the same way - they have MANNY and Albert Belle rated higher than Lofton.
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Old 05-28-2012, 02:30 PM   #5
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Sorry, but I will not discuss this again on the base of Gold Glove awards. Last year I explained it in great depth with serious stats and it showed that the defense ratings are of course not perfect (which will never happen with the defense stats that are available for historical seasons) but still pretty good. I only got responses like "but he won GG awards" (so does Derek Jeter, yeah right) and "I remember him as the best 2B of all time" which is pretty frustrating. So please forgive me but as long as people don't post stats that show me a player is dramatically under-rated I will not do anything.
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Old 05-28-2012, 03:25 PM   #6
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palli is right. The ratings are based on rather sophisticated formulas (some of which I've seen) using historical stats. And they're designed to produce comparable stats. If "reputation" were added to the mix, the results would be skewed. At least that's how I understand it. And overall I've been impressed with the results.
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Old 05-29-2012, 05:21 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pstrickert View Post
palli is right. The ratings are based on rather sophisticated formulas (some of which I've seen) using historical stats. And they're designed to produce comparable stats. If "reputation" were added to the mix, the results would be skewed. At least that's how I understand it. And overall I've been impressed with the results.
see i was sure that vizquel is one of the best defensive SS ever no matter what type of stat you're looking at, old school or new school

lofton might have been more on rep
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Old 05-31-2012, 12:25 AM   #8
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I'm new to the forum for iootp and just trying to understand the game better.

Questions:

1. Are the fielding ratings based on 1 year only or a 3 year window as is an option in OOTP?

2. Do the fielding ratings recalc. at the end of the season based on real life?

3. Here is an example

According to seamsheads:

1970 Season - The Baseball Gauge @ Seamheads.com

Willie Davis ranks as the #4 CF in MLB in 1970 by runs saved above average.
If you look at their multiyear rating, he is #6.

In 1969, he had a down season and ranked #22 in CF (15 if take min. g=40)

So, if I start an iootp game in 1969 and progress to 1970, what would I expect to see from Willie Davis?

What I do see is a 5 rating in CF on a 1-20 scale. I would like to understand why.

Last edited by 7mart7; 05-31-2012 at 12:26 AM. Reason: clarifying scale
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Old 06-02-2012, 07:15 PM   #9
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but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebastian Palkowski View Post
Sorry, but I will not discuss this again on the base of Gold Glove awards. Last year I explained it in great depth with serious stats and it showed that the defense ratings are of course not perfect (which will never happen with the defense stats that are available for historical seasons) but still pretty good. I only got responses like "but he won GG awards" (so does Derek Jeter, yeah right) and "I remember him as the best 2B of all time" which is pretty frustrating. So please forgive me but as long as people don't post stats that show me a player is dramatically under-rated I will not do anything.
I guess I can understand a programmer trying to defend his product but just because we cannot argue with data that most people could never understand does not mean the ratings are correct. the 76 Reds probably would have led the league in errors if IOOTP ratings were totally correct. I once played 49 games with the 76 Reds and Joe Morgans errors were nearly double the amount that he had that entire year though I do not have the exact numbers right now to back that up. Also that season Concepcion had more errors in that 49 game span than he had the entire year. I was so frustrated that I abandoned the project.
I still believe the game has good entertainment value but the defensive ratings simply do not match up with ratings from at least three other major game manufacturers and in some instances do not seem realistic to me.
You have the right to disagree with me but I am entitled to my opinion also.
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Old 06-03-2012, 11:53 PM   #10
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So, why not give us a link to where this was discussed in detail a year ago? You have to remember that new players are coming in all the time and that isn't the best customer service to say that you are tired of responding to an issue instead of giving us some information.
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Old 06-04-2012, 12:35 AM   #11
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This might be it: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ave-found.html
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:34 PM   #12
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Before we start the discussion again a few points:

1. (i)OOTP generates all ratings automatically from the stats available in the Lahman Database.

2. Nothing else then stats are used to generate the ratings, no awards, no reputation and no scouting.

3. To evaluate stats produced from the game please do the same as in reality: do not look at small sample sizes. It has a reason that in baseball they play 162 games. It makes no sense at all (in reality and in OOTP) to evaluate stats after only 50 games played.

4. Defense ratings are the toughest ones to generate as defense stats are more vague then batting/pitching stats.

Now, lets go into more detail:

For the 95er Tribe (I have them easy available here, the rest has to wait until I have more time):

Omar Vizquel: in 1995 he had a .986 Fielding% (3rd best in the AL), the game rates him with an Infield Error rating of 19/20. I don't see a problem here. His RangeFactor was below league average, iOOTP rates him with a 14 Range (nothing wrong here, maybe even a bit to high). So in 95 he was an SS with average range but without making many errors and iOOTP rates him exactly as that.
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